Welcome to the Common Time Podcast, a show designed to give music educators practical, inspiring ideas for you and your program. Each week we sit down with world-class educators, composers, and conductors to talk about teaching, leadership, and building programs that thrive without burning yourself out. Whether you're a band, orchestra, or choir director, our goal is simple: help you grow, stay inspired, and remember why you fell in love with teaching music in the first place. This is Season 4, and we're diving even deeper — more real conversations, more actionable takeaways, more voices shaping the future of music education. Let's get into the episode. Hello everyone. This is our last episode of Season 4. Welcome back, John. Time flies — Season 4, what a journey. We should start by thanking our incredible listeners. It's because of you that we're able to keep this thing going. Wasn't it an amazing season?
It really was. Just thinking about all the guests we've had — 15 outstanding conversations. We started with Michael Gaines. And our final guest, who I'm not going to name right now, is coming out tomorrow, and it's going to be great.
I'm looking at our production notes and it says — and I'm quoting — "do quick, warm banter now." So let's banter. I'm not entirely sure what that means, but here we go.
Well, I don't either, but here we are. I was just thinking about your residency at UTA — it was such an incredible performance. Do you want to talk about that? How did it come about?
A year ago yesterday, there was some unfortunate news in our profession. Doug Starter was the Director of Bands at the University of Texas Arlington. He gave his last concert and unexpectedly passed away just after that. The university decided to create an artist-in-residency series for the following year, inviting six conductors in, and I was one of them. I closed out the series. It was an honor to hold that space — and I'm an alum of the university, which made it especially meaningful. Very nostalgic being back on campus. I was walking through and there were trees that thirty years ago were just little saplings, and now they've grown into this full canopy. The campus is beautiful. The students were magnificent to work with. They'd had a challenging year — every three or four weeks a new conductor — but they were so open-minded and we grew very quickly. We started with Salvation Is Created at the very first downbeat, we started the final rehearsal the same way, and we ended the concert the same way, in honor of Doug. What was fascinating is that in the first rehearsal, they really wanted more from me — more beats, more clarity. I stopped not even ten or fifteen measures in and said: you really want me to give you more clear information. They said yes. I said: I want you to listen to each other and find that information internally. I'm not going to do anything differently. Over the three weeks together, we started the final rehearsal with that same piece — and it was as though we had connected at a different level. They got it. I didn't have to do anything differently. They played beautifully. It was a meaningful concert. I also — to make a long story longer — created an app to go along with the performance. I called it the living program. It was a beta test. After COVID, everyone scans the QR code and goes in, and they're looking at their phones anyway — why not give them something interactive? We sent out composer videos before the concert that went live in the app so users could hear from the composers beforehand. They could read the notes. There was a full narrative arc covering all six pieces. During the concert, little pop-ups appeared to take the user mentally to the space each piece occupied. At intermission there was a questionnaire. There was a final in memoriam section for Doug. And then afterward — yesterday, actually — another piece was pushed out for reflections from the concert. There was really great feedback. I'm pushing out all of those responses today so everyone can see what everyone else was feeling in the room. It was an experiment. There were a few things I wish had gone differently, but it was such a cool thing to connect with a live performance. I titled the concert Transformation — the idea that we are always becoming, that change is not an event but a condition, and that we never stop becoming. That was the arc through the entire program, each piece examining that idea through a different lens. The final big piece was the Symphonic Metamorphosis by Hindemith — a piece I've loved since I was first introduced to Hindemith. It was just an incredible experience to be in front of that ensemble doing that piece. The kids were great. It was cool being back on campus, and the living program concept — I'm hoping to share that further.
I got an opportunity to see it — it's pretty genius, actually. I was following along with it and it has so many implications in the education world, in the professional world.
For the genesis of it: most of us are on our devices more than we should be, but we still use them — they're part of what we do. And especially the younger generation, more and more people are getting information from their device first. My thought was: if I could find a way onto their device that creates something meaningful and pulls everything together from a live performance, maybe that would resonate. We'll see. What's also exciting about the residency — the conductor before you, Michael Haithcock, we spoke with him this season.
Yeah, we did actually. Remember, and he was talking about Lincolnshire Posy and he programmed that during that concert and.
He did, yeah.
I actually spoke with the students about that. I followed Professor Haithcock — which, I mean, that's not the spot you always want. I just went straight to them: how was Professor Haithcock? And I told them honestly — I was really glad they had the opportunity not only to be in that space with him, but for him to have shared that piece with them. Because if he's not the most knowledgeable person on Lincolnshire Posy, he has to be in the top three on the planet. I just told them straight out: you were very lucky to have had him, and hopefully I could hold my own.
In the concert, I'll tell you, the concert was incredible. It'll be posted. I talked to Chris Evans, who's the associate conductor there, and he said that they're going to post the a YouTube video. So everybody listening should go and check it out because it was a true, meaningful performance.
The students were remarkable. The Symphonic Metamorphosis is harder than the orchestral version because of all the string parts written into the woodwinds — bless their hearts. There are so many notes, and you can't get to all of them in three weeks. You just have to trust and hope it comes together. And it did. They did a beautiful job. The principal flutist was fantastic in the third movement. It was just meaningful for everybody. There were a lot of smiles on stage, and that's exactly how you want to leave a concert — feeling good, able to let go and conduct and communicate and smile along the way. Certainly better than tears afterward. So anyway, David — what's next for you? I know we're collaborating on a couple of things.
It's been a very challenging term, personally and professionally — my parents passing — but things are starting to get back to normal, which is good. Professionally, it's been such an exciting term. My concert band played really well. We just had a concert last weekend. And you did Lincolnshire Posy?
Lincolnshire Posy — yes, such good music. And I also gave a TED Talk this past term.
Hold on. Let's just stop right there — tell us everything. How did this come about? I think everybody listening has probably seen it by now because it went pretty viral in the band world. How did you get to it, how did you plan it?
It's an interesting process — you can apply, or they come to you. I got an email: hey, do you want to give a TED Talk? And I said no, because I didn't know what people would want to hear me say. I've had a charmed life. I get to do my hobby every day. I get to teach fantastic students. How do I put that into a package that's helpful for people? But they convinced me. And man, what an interesting process. I had a team of probably 20 people — production, speechwriting, editing, PR. It was a really involved process. My coaching team was great. It was just really special. I've always wanted to stand on the red dot and say thank you for coming to my TED Talk — and I actually did that, which is pretty cool. It turned out great. It was a way for me to synthesize my own thoughts about my speech impediment and how I've dealt with it — we all have our struggles, and that was mine. Thankfully it was very well received.
So now, John, you were talking about things that are upcoming. And tomorrow we're beginning our third, right?
Yes — our third collaboration in sub-Saharan Africa. For our listeners: David and I and some colleagues are partnering with the University of Cape Coast in Cape Coast, Ghana to present wind band pedagogy workshops for educators, professionals, amateurs, and government musicians on the African continent. Over the past couple of years we've been working with about 13 African countries — 61 universities involved, 29 government ensembles (the equivalent of an Army Band in Kenya or Zimbabwe), and hundreds of students and professional musicians. It's been really great. This time around I've assembled expert pedagogues on each instrument, because the African teachers want to learn about the Western approach to teaching music — and that's not the only way to do it, but it's our approach. We start tomorrow. Three days. It's going to be great.
Fired up about it. Last time we did this we had like 500?
Over 700 participants — from 13 African countries, plus the Middle East, Russia, Cyprus.
I'm really looking forward to kicking this one off. And this is leading to something bigger — in 2027, is that when the certification solidifies?
Through the University of Cape Coast, we're creating a master's degree. It'll start as a certification for a year while we finalize accreditation through the Ghanaian Ministry of Education. After that's done, it'll be a full-fledged master's degree in conducting and instrument pedagogy — which is really exciting.
Yeah, the first of its kind, to my knowledge, on the African continent.
On the continent, yeah — it's really cool. It's a great project. I'm thankful to be a part of it. It's such an interesting outreach because the first time we collaborated with them, they have such a different experience with music. The resources they have available are so much less than what we typically have. It's been exciting to be able to share and help — but also to learn other approaches and other pedagogies, which I think is critical for us. It makes me a better teacher to think about how other people approach saxophone or percussion specifically. I remember when Richard and I were there taking drumming lessons — the sounds of those drums, the air hitting the dirt underneath — it's a sound I'll never forget. Beautiful and incredible. They love different genres, the different sounds they create, and the cultures are just so diverse and wonderful. It really is a global cohort of music educators.
It really is — all of us. Which is really cool. Common Time is going global.
We have been — on Spotify we definitely have European reach, which is excellent. I don't know all the numbers, the producers do all that. Africa too, I'd imagine — we are.
I do send it to my colleagues in those areas, so yes — Australia, Africa. The producers did a fantastic job, by the way. Thank you, producers — our wives. They are very helpful not only in producing but in keeping our lives sane and on track. They provided a set of notes and listener questions. The first one is: are we going to have any choir people on?
Yes, of course — it's such a fabulous genre. Of course we will. Just as a bit of context: we're in our fourth season, but we really did start with what we knew — we're both in the band and wind ensemble world, so we started there. And then over the last couple of seasons we've branched out — orchestral conductors, an author. We are expanding. I would love to hear from listeners about any choral individuals — or anyone you'd like to have a conversation with — and we will make that happen. Elementary music too, I think that would be fantastic. Those two are our next focus. And if you have suggestions, please send them to us. I've also been thinking about mariachi.
It's huge where I am. The state of Texas now has a mariachi program at the UIL level — that's the University Interscholastic League, which oversees fine arts performance evaluations across the state.
That's a fair definition. I've never been able to describe it myself when asked. What is UIL? I don't know — we just go to it.
In any case, mariachi was added several years ago and it's a thriving program here. Hearing those ensembles play is spectacular — such magnificent music. The articulation, the clarity of what they do, and just culturally — it's really awesome to see. That would be a good one. John, add it to the list.
Yeah, you're not just a pretty face.
That brings up a question someone sent in about the Common Time Collective. The Common Time Collective is our private Facebook group — a space where directors can ask questions, receive feedback, and collaborate in safety. No parents, no students. It's designed to be collaborative and constructive. If you've clicked to join but haven't been admitted yet, there are some membership questions to answer — go in and answer those. It helps protect the group from bots and keeps it a safe place. We want to keep growing it. Not really "membership" — just people who are part of the collective, because we want to collaboratively provide a resource for people who don't have someone who can come to their school every week. We had Rebecca Warren on earlier this season, who talked about small schools. I was blown away by that conversation — what it's like to live in rural North Dakota as a music educator, where your program may be five students. A quintet. And the next school is an hour and a half away. The idea of a director just going over to hear someone else's rehearsal — that happens all the time in larger cities, but they don't have that. So the Collective exists to provide that resource. Someone asks: how do I get my clarinets to sound great here? And someone in the group has already dealt with it and can help. We've set it up so feedback is given as positive collaboration, not as why don't you already know this. Go to Facebook, look up Common Time Collective, and join if you're not already there. If you are, please share questions and ideas and things that happened in your rehearsal that were meaningful — that's the point. Another listener question is about our availability for honor bands and clinics. I stay pretty busy, but I do try to work in as many as I can. Just email me — dclemmer@mac.com. It will never change. Even though Apple has tried to make me use iCloud, I refuse. If anyone wants to have me come out, I'm happy to help. When I was at UTA last week, one of my colleagues who teaches at Harwood Junior High in HEB asked me to come out and hear his band the day before UIL. It was my birthday. They were using the Blue Book — Jeff King's performance guide. I hate to say we all call it the Blue Book in the industry. Sorry, Jeff.
Sorry, Jeff. Jeff has actually been on the podcast so I feel not feel terrible.
He called up Exercise 1A — which most of us who have used the book know — and then gave the downbeat, and they played Happy Birthday for me.
Oh, they did.
It was such a remarkable moment. It took me a second — what is happening? This is not Exercise 1A, this is Happy Birthday. They were doing The Thunderer — the green band version, downloaded parts. It is hard. I got to work with them and help, and he asked if I'd conduct some of it. I was as big and boisterous as I normally am, and they just went right with it. His principal players had some solos, and getting to work with these middle school kids — toward the end they were really thinking artistically and still playing beautifully together, doing everything they needed to do to achieve excellence at UIL. They had a great time. The challenging part was that he wanted to pay me, but there were like five different documents, you have to create a vendor, all these things. I opened them and sent him a text that said: Doyle, I have two undergraduate degrees, a master's degree, and a doctorate, and I cannot fill these out. Don't worry about the money. I just want to come hear your band.
Exactly. It was a lot of fun. For anybody listening, please reach out to David. I'm the same way — I typically book about a calendar year out, especially for Allstate or honor bands, but if I'm available, I'm happy to come out. You can email me at jdpas@umich.edu or go to the Michigan Marching Band website and find me under staff. David and I have done clinics all over the world, literally. We're always happy to help — that idea of helping is everything.
The idea of helping — when we had Laura Jackson on, one of our orchestral conductors, I asked her something like what do you feel your responsibility is on the podium. And she made it very simple. She said: my job on the podium is just to help. I'm just here to help the musicians realize the composer's intent. That really got me thinking about what we do on a daily basis. We're just helping. Whether it's honor bands, Europe, Yamaha, the podcast — it's all just helping. The podcast has become a service, a servant leadership thing. Something we can give back. So wrapping back to it — it's the Season 4 finale and I'm so thankful we do this, because it's given me an avenue to give back and invite people on and ask questions and keep growing.
Speaking of that — I was just in Saint Louis. It was a combination: a professional development session for Rockwood School District, then a conducting symposium with their teachers, then a two-day honor band. What a neat setup. There is really fantastic music education going on in Saint Louis — I was floored. If anyone's looking for PD sessions or anything like that, I'm happy to help.
That's a great model, and with the conducting element — that's something that's very interesting to me. We have degrees in conducting and we think we're pretty comfortable with it now, but we've been forced into very uncomfortable situations where we had to become better on the podium. I'm not going to say I cried, but I did. There were times the tears flowed.
Every day. As music educators, you take maybe one or two semesters of conducting and then you go out and spend the rest of your career teaching. But your instrument is the baton — what you're doing with your body, your hands, your eyes, your face. You get a semester or two of that and then do it for thirty years. The idea of continuing to hone that craft — those of us who went back to school forced ourselves into those situations. But I don't really see a lot of opportunities for educator-level people to hone that craft in a way that's safe and the environment is helpful. I don't know how we can help with that specifically. But what you just said — having a professional development that actually works on conducting — that's such a great idea, because most professional developments I've been through don't do that. They're nuts and bolts. Not a lot of hands-on: let's take out a score, let's talk about how you move this phrase forward visually. That's not something that's really done. Maybe that's a good opportunity.
What was really cool about it was they had an ensemble of students — not professional players. Real. Having to deal with how their body moves, because this wasn't score study. It was just: do I give a downbeat and does sound come out? And how does it come in? Am I affecting that? That's the most eye-opening part. I had two conductors on the podium during the session, whoever wanted to. Some people passed, but it was really interesting — wow, do you hear the pulse problems? Yep, that's all you. We've all been there, trust me.
Do you remember back in school — why does the band sound that way? I remember the first time I stood in front of the Symphony Band at Michigan. I forget the piece — Hindemith, Concert Music, I can't remember — but it was something substantial. I gave a downbeat and they did exactly what I showed. And as Professor Haithcock would say: you got the good news and the bad news. They gave you exactly what you gave them. You learn really fast. That was a very eye-opening lesson in a very short time.
Absolutely. When you go through a graduate degree in conducting, you have moments like that. I told a few stories at this residency about things I learned in my doctorate. It wasn't just about how you move — it was about how I breathe. I don't breathe like an instrumentalist when I'm on the podium. It's very different. Being able to breathe a certain way allows me to be more relaxed, and allows a more open feeling. Whereas when you take a breath as an instrumentalist, you're trying to get air into your body to do a job. That's not what it is as a conductor. If I breathe a certain way, it creates tension in the players and they give that back to you — even if they don't mean to. It's involuntary. It's this relationship of what they see and then they replicate. Sometimes we just don't realize how much we're doing on the podium that's making it harder for our students. Going back to Laura's idea of helping — are we helping or are we not?
I'm going to get on a soapbox just a bit — this fires me up. Most of us, how we prep the beat — the speed, space, and weight as the tip of the baton goes up and comes back down — is out of time. We approach the preparatory beat and downbeat not in the even flow of time. Therefore the players have to guess. I talk to my conducting students about this all the time: cut, what was the problem? Too fast. You go up too fast and then drop it at a different rate of speed. Because to have pulse you need two events. You can't know what the pulse is from one event alone — both the prep and the downbeat have to arrive at the same rate of speed. How you approach that with intention, style, and tempo matters. But if those two events aren't in time, the band's not going to play together. It just won't. For anybody listening: pay close attention to that. The preparatory beat speaks volumes.
Conducting is not on our show flow, but it's so important. And since you mentioned the professional development aspect — a lot of what I've been doing recently is much more about culture: how we build trust and belonging within rehearsals. I think that's more foundational than conducting technique. What's happening in the room, how we're creating a relationship with students so they feel safe, feel willing to take a risk, speak up and share how they're thinking. So it's not all coming from the podium. That said, the information that is coming from the podium, if it's non-verbal — and it should be; great communication is largely non-verbal, especially in music — our focus on being better movers and conductors is really important if we want to create an environment where that works symbiotically with our students. If we're doing it in a way that's causing friction, they're working through that friction on their own. And that's just — going back to Laura — not helping. So record your rehearsals. Video record them. Not just audio. I do audio, I make copious notes, send them out to the students. But video — you see so much more. Not only how you moved, but how much did you talk? Could that have been said in four words instead of forty? It's so easy now. Put your phone on a music stand and hit go. You will learn so much about your own teaching and your own movement. Sometimes we're afraid to do that because we're afraid of what we might find. It's like when we started the podcast and we just did it — but if you go back to our first episode, we were not skilled at this. Jerry Junkin, thank you so much. We should have him back on just to apologize. But the point is: turn the focus back on yourself sometimes and ask, are we actually giving information that's helpful? I'm glad you brought that up.
Also video your concerts. We're all human and we make mistakes. In the fifth movement of Lincolnshire Posy I accidentally moved in a way I've never done before — it was the last statement of free time before the final fermata — and the players interpreted that as me adding a beat. For about three seconds it was a little rocky. Absolutely not their fault. It was me, just the flow of the moment. How you move really matters. Take every opportunity to video yourself, because it happens to all of us. I did video my last performance, except our good friend and colleague Chris Evans forgot to turn the camera on — throwing him under the bus right now, Chris. To his credit, he was doing a ton of things: he had to work with all six conductors, had about two days to learn six full programs of substantial literature, run logistics for the concert, and manage a dashboard on his phone tied to the app with eight or nine push notifications he had to fire during the performance. Plus one of my pieces used electronics — wireless headphones, he started the electronics and ran all of that. So it wasn't really his fault. I gave him a lot of stuff to do. It's marginally his fault. OK, maybe Chris.
So, let's shift gears — music recommendations. Do you have any pieces people should know about?
I just did this piece on the concert — Two Poems of Robert Frost by David Campo. I first heard it last semester and programmed it for an honor band in the Austin area and the kids did so well. The piece is really something. If you know Robert Frost's poetry, it's almost all saying the same thing — an inward look about change and where we're going. The road less traveled, the idea of what you choose in a moment, what you leave behind. The man looking into the snowy woods, contemplating where he is. They all revolve around this same idea. It fit beautifully with our program and the concept of never stop becoming. The piece isn't a literal musical response to the poems — it's more the feeling the poems generate. I had Dr. Campo come out and recite the poems before we play each movement. It's really moving. If he can make it to a rehearsal or performance, he is so open to coming out, working with the ensemble, sharing his vision of what the music is and why he created it. He's not reading — he's reciting — and he does it with such passion for what it is. A really unique experience. Beautiful piece. And I'm looking forward to more from him — he's been finishing another piece, dotting the i's and crossing the t's, said it should be done by next week. I'm really looking forward to that one too. That's the first one that comes to mind.
I'm going to program that — definitely next year. Through the honor bands I've been doing this past cycle, I've discovered Carol Britton Chambers more than just cursorily, and her stuff is really good. For anybody listening — around grade 3 through 5, really well constructed. Highly recommend. I also rediscovered Chorale and Alleluia by Hanson and I love it. Haven't done it in probably 20 years and I have it programmed for this fall. You go back to it and think: this music is so good. It's like when you haven't done the first suite or the Holst suites in a while and you go back and think, wow, this is such good music.
It is such good music. When I was a senior at UT Arlington, Ray Lichtenwalter was the Director of Bands — and I actually got to see Ray at my concert last week. Getting a big hug from him, forehead to forehead — such a meaningful moment. Ray would hold a one-day conducting symposium for high school directors in the area, bring in great people. We had Mallory Thompson one year, and the year I participated, he also asked one senior student to conduct. He asked me — which was a real honor because we had H. Robert Reynolds, who recently passed away. He's such a pillar, not just in band but really more globally, in the wind band conducting world — him and Fred Fennell. I was in that symposium with Bob Reynolds and did Hymnsong of Philip Bliss as the slower piece. The time I had with Bob on that work was really meaningful — how he talked about Robert Redford versus Robert De Niro, these three Roberts he would use to describe different personalities and how the music might require you to become a different one. My other piece was Chorale and Alleluia. It's just such good music.
What a memory. One other piece — I wasn't really familiar with Rossana Galante. Do you know her work?
Oh yes, fantastic. Really fantastic.
I'd seen the name but hadn't really worked with any of her pieces. Redemption was a piece a junior high band I worked with a couple of weeks ago was doing — and my goodness. There was so much opportunity for beauty in how it was constructed. So much room for these students to express nuance and create a personal statement. I asked them: can you shape this? Can you do that? And they absolutely could and did. The principal flutist — can you add vibrato here, and then crescendo through beat three? Yes, done. Some of the music written for middle school band can feel formulaic, but in that piece I could sense the depth of what the composer was communicating, and the opportunity it created for younger students to actually do that and be successful at it. Of everything on Doyle's program, it was my favorite. I wasn't familiar with it and I thought: I would program that at a college level. That is good music. And it also reminds me — I was doing Julie Giroux's Un Mambo Pero Loco. Do you know it?
I've heard it.
It's a great piece — fun. People should check it out. It's harder than it looks, but it's an outstanding piece of music.
So I see on our show flow we're going to talk about how grateful we are for the audience. You've got to be grateful for me, John. Come on.
I'm always grateful for you. But we hear from people at the strangest times. I was walking into the School of Music the other day and someone was screaming at me from across the parking lot: what's your favorite time signature? That's funny.
Same thing happened to me at UTA. I went in to rehearse the band — Chris was conducting an honor band in Tennessee and asked me to step in, happy to help — and one of the students asked: hey, what's your favorite time signature? People are listening. It's so cool, because when we started this it was just an experiment to see what would happen. We're just trying to help people. But we are building a cohort of global music educators — because we're all trying to do the best for kids. That's the whole point. We get to teach music and help students. That is such a beautiful thing.
We've spoken to close to 60 guests now — and every time, I walk away inspired by the information, more thoughtful about what I'm doing on the podium or when I'm looking at a score or when I'm talking to musicians or students. All of these things have really helped me grow. You're right — we started this as an experiment. I was driving, Theresa was in the passenger seat. We were driving to Dallas and I said, I really want to start a podcast. We called you, she opened her laptop, and she started creating the logo. We went through names and titles and somehow landed on Common Time — the idea of commonality — and it resonated. Let's do it. Then: who do we get, what are we going to do? I remember reaching out to our first guests — we've never done this before, we don't have a podcast — we're reaching out to Jerry Junkin to be on our podcast that doesn't exist yet. That's a weird place to be. And now four seasons and 60 guests later, I'm really excited about what's coming. Including the Collective — because on that car ride we talked about how maybe this could grow into a space for music educators to collaborate, to talk to someone who did that piece last week in New York while you're doing it in California. I'm pretty excited that we've survived four seasons, that our guest list has grown in really unique ways. One of my favorite conversations from this year was with Sam Quinones.
We featured his book — The Perfect Tuba. I've got it right here. That was kind of an accident — I got a book review email and it was in there. Huh, that's interesting. It's kind of a band thing, but this guy's not a band guy, which really piqued my interest. This is not a band person writing about music. So I got the book and read it — what an inspiring story. He details it all as a kind of response to all of the work he did covering the opioid crisis. If you see Sam Quinones in interviews, people ask: what's the solution to the drug epidemic? And his response is: join the band. Being in the band. That is such an important point for advocacy. Look what band programs are doing, what music educators are doing. What all of you out there are doing is so important. The podcast has become, I hope, something that globally connects us all together. If you haven't read the book, go get it — The Perfect Tuba by Sam Quinones, on Amazon. It's an inspiring book. There are parts that get you teary. He talks about the Lopez High School band from down in the Valley winning honor band in the state of Texas — which is the highest honor for wind ensembles in Texas. This was a group right across the border. Some of those students probably didn't speak English well, and they rose to the highest level of performance. Not from Dallas-Fort Worth, Houston, or Austin — from Lopez. And I was at their performance at TMEA when they performed the next year. Sam's book encapsulates that so well.
Also on books — everyone should check out Oh, Say Can You Hear? by Mark Clague, who we spoke with. Especially as we approach the 250th birthday of America this coming year. What a fantastic conversation. If you haven't gone back and listened to Mark Clague — he's a musicologist, and sometimes some of the guests we have build immediate notoriety and people listen right away. And sometimes, like Mark Clague, you might think: I don't know who that is. Go listen to this one. He is the world expert on the national anthem. In that conversation I learned a lot of things about the Star-Spangled Banner that I did not know, and some of the things I thought I knew, I was immediately shown I was wrong. So go listen to that episode, and read the book: Oh, Say Can You Hear?
There's another book — The Directed Listening Model. I think you should check that one out as well. It's really good for ensemble musicianship and for anyone on the podium. How do you dissect live sound? How do you prioritize it? It's set up in a way that if you look through it, you'll find something that will change your rehearsal immediately. That's a good book.
And if anybody wants a German version — there is one. I have a few extra copies. Actually I'll just send you a whole box of them, because I can't read it. They sent me ten copies. What am I supposed to do with ten books I can't read? It's funny that we published a book we can't read — published first in Germany, which is even crazier. Our co-author there is Christophe Breitock. Hello, Christophe. He translated it — we all collaborated on the English version first, and then he translated into German. So we actually don't know if he translated what we said. It could be something completely different. We don't even know. Silly Americans, that's right.
Anyway, we should probably wrap up here soon. We're at the part of our show flow where we have a couple things we'd love for listeners to do.
We started a segment called Standing Ovation — I think it was last season, not sure. We had some really great ones. It's a short segment at the top of the program where we recognize wonderful work you and your colleagues are doing in music education. We were honored to share those epic little moments about people doing great work. We have not done a fantastic job of reminding listeners that it exists. So — another shout-out. It's always linked in our show notes, just scroll down. If you see someone doing great work, share their story and let us share it too. We've had a couple that school districts picked up, got published, superintendents heard about it. That's always good for advocacy. If we can help shine a light on the good work you're doing and get it pushed out to your community, everybody wins. Send us people you want to celebrate — that's the first thing.
And there's also a listener survey that'll be going on. Do you have specifics on that?
I don't have specifics on that. All I know is it'll be in the show notes — the producer just confirmed with a very emphatic yes. I haven't seen the form exactly, but it's the same thing we've been doing: what we want to hear from you, what's working. Her texts are getting shorter, which means she's getting agitated. She did say stop saying "call to action." Well — this is not a call to action, everyone. This is a suggestion. She's down to three words now and it's not "I love you."
In any case, we've got to wrap up. If you have questions for us, please send them. We'd love to address them. Also topics, and share this with your colleagues if you think it's worthwhile. Looking to Season 5 — what can we do next, how much further can we reach, how many people can we help? It always helps if you like, comment, and share. And go ahead, John.
Speaking of Season 5 — I am fired up for it.
Same. Our last ask — and she's going to be mad at me for not calling it a "call to action" — is to send us questions. What would you like to hear about? Who would you like to hear from? We take that information and we use it to build the season. We're building Season 5 right now and we want it to matter and provide what you need. Just take a moment, send us an email, and let's get it going.
As we wrap up — I'm thankful for all our listeners, David, I'm always thankful for you, Theresa obviously as well. I'm so thankful for everybody. Next time I see you, which will be in five days, we're going to be in Ireland. I cannot wait. We'll see each other in Dublin.
Yes we will. We'll have an episode from the cliffs or something. We'll figure it out.
We'll probably shoot some video over there with a Guinness or something. But — Season 4 is a wrap. I'm done with you, David. I'm thankful for you. I'm thankful for our wives, and for this thing that was just an experiment. I'm extremely grateful we have the ability to continue doing it, and I'm looking forward to Season 5. Season 5 — here we go.
And that's a wrap on today's episode. Thanks for spending part of your day with us on the Common Time Podcast. If today's conversation gave you something to think about or something to try with your students, we'd love for you to share this episode with a colleague. And you can also follow us on social media for episode clips, behind the scenes content, and updates to our upcoming guests. And if you haven't already, please be sure to subscribe so that you never miss an episode. Until next time, keep making music and keep making a difference.