Welcome to the Common Time Podcast, a show designed to give music educators practical, inspiring ideas for you and your program. Each week we sit down with world class educators, composers, and conductors to talk about teaching, leadership and building programs that thrive without burning yourself out. So whether you're a band, orchestra, or choir director, our goal is simple to help you grow and stay inspired and remember why you fell in love with teaching music in the first place. This is season 4, and we're diving even deeper. More real conversations, more actionable takeaways, and more voices shaping the future of music education. Let's get into the episode. Our guest today is Becky Warren. Welcome, Becky.
Hey, thank you for having me.
Absolutely. So Becky has for the last 40 years been and she served as a director. She's been a teacher, a clinician, performer, mentor, and the list really goes on and on. In December of 2025, though, she presented a clinic at the Midwest Clinic entitled Grow where you are planted cultivating success in small schools. And I'm really excited to jump into this topic with her today. John, why don't you get us started?
Thanks, David. Hi, Becky. It's an honor to have you here with us.
Thanks so much.
So my first question is with your success in the smaller school setting, the term success often looks different than perhaps from a large program. So how do you define success in your own program, and how has that definition shaped how you approach things as a director?
That's a great question. You know, success can be defined in many different ways. For me as a teacher, from early in my career up until now, 45 plus years in the business, seeing the growth of students, musical growth, seeing their ability to develop their skills, to develop their own individual way to interpret music, to be able to put themselves in the position to be able to grow musically and express themselves. I think success is definitely not determined by ratings or trophies or any of those types of things. I think that seeing students individual growth is the greatest success that they can have. And you know, we think about beginners and where they start and how they sound at the end of the year. That is great success. You know, to learn the first 5 notes for your first concert in December is success. To be able to play a duet of hot cross buns or whatever that is. Success. For students to feel good about what they're doing and to have them perform at a level that is greater than what their previous performance was. In my mind, that's success.
Yeah, absolutely. You know, I've never, it's been, it's been a while since I've taught beginner kids, but it is interesting to see their eyes light up when they make their first sound or they do play the first hot cross buns or something that seems so simple. But to them psychologically, that's a pretty huge, I guess barrier that they've overcome because it's something they went from zero. I can't do this at all to I am producing something.
Well, you think about. Yeah, you think about as beginners if they did not have an elementary music school program, which a lot of schools do not across the country have. Elementary music, right? They show up and it's like learning to read a foreign language. Obviously it's learning how to do things physically that we've never, ever had to do in our lives. You know, to form an embouchure, to hold an instrument, to hold a heavy instrument as a fifth grader, 6th grader, to be able to follow instructions and be surrounded by people that are playing different instruments than you are. We're asking a lot of those students and it's amazing because they always come through for us.
Yeah, absolutely. I want to ask you some questions about systems and routines that you use. But before we jump into that, can you tell us a little bit? I know that you're passionate about small schools, but you haven't always taught in small schools. We were talking about this earlier. So can you tell us a little bit about your journey and your passion here and why this is so important for you?
Oh, I'd love to have that opportunity.
Yes, let's hear it.
I went to a large high school in Alabama, which is where I grew up, went to college, of course, and my first job, to be honest with you, I went and applied for a job. Our local music store rep said you need to go look at this job. And it was in a very rural Alabama in what we call coal country. Alabama strip hits, coal mining. There was not a town. There was a community. There was a building at the stop sign. It housed the library, the City Hall, and the fire hall all in one building. So I go to apply for this job in the middle of nowhere in a place I'd never heard of in our state. And when I left, the principal gave me the keys. I thought I had done such a great job on the interview. He was so impressed he wanted to hire me. Truth was, nobody would take the job. I was the only one that was willing to take those keys and walk away. So I taught there for four years and fell in love with it. Started out with 26 kids. The school was grades K through 12, about 230 students. And it just, it was such a wonderful teaching experience for me. And it was such a great way to learn the value of music, especially in those small communities, those small schools. Schools are the center of those communities. That's where all the action is. That's where everybody goes for stuff. And to be a part of that was very important to me. I left there after four years, went to another small rural school in Alabama, taught there for 10 years, and then had the opportunity to go to a large high school. But it was a rebuilding process, very much a rebuilding process. And I've realized early in my career that I liked being a builder of things. I didn't want to be a maintainer of things. I love to take students that maybe don't have a lot of confidence in what they're doing and maybe programs that don't feel like they're having success and do what I can to help them gain confidence and to help them have pride in their program and to help them be successful. After teaching in Alabama for 28 years, I moved to North Dakota where my husband was the high school band director and I was an assistant at the middle school. The program here in North Dakota, by North Dakota standards is pretty big, which you can imagine. The standards there are very different than they are say in Texas. But getting here, I've got very active in the state with our state MEA as I have been in Alabama as well and realized what wonderful teaching was happening in these very, very small schools across North Dakota, right? What literally still someone room school houses, but there's great teaching going on and great music education happening. And at these schools, it wasn't just band, it was band and choir. One of the people that was on the panel with me at Midwest this year, I have to say something about her. At one point in time at her school, she was the elementary music teacher, the choir teacher, the band director, the librarian, the principal and the Superintendent.
Yes, wow, it's unbelievable.
It was North Dakota and I went down to a little festival she had and adjudicated her students. She only had four students in her high school band. They played a quartet that would bring tears to your eyes. It was high quality. It was beautifully played, tone quality, everything you would want to hear that you could give feedback from an adjudicator standpoint was this was superior, this was superior, and it happens all over the country, but people don't realize it and they kind of feel isolated and alone and need to realize you're not alone. There are others just like you doing great teaching in small communities everywhere, and we're trying to connect those people.
Well, I. Inspiring. I love.
It is inspiring. I love. I'm so I remember having a point in my career as a young teacher where another school opened up in the district I was teaching and it split our band and my band. We went from having 4 bands to having 2 bands. I was the assistant. So my second band was hit. It was affected pretty aggressively and I had 4 clarinets and I was pretty challenged. Like I, what am I going to do with four clarinets? This person had four musicians total. I just, that is a that is really mind blowing and it was quite successful. I can say with certainty that some of the best players that I have at the University of Michigan come from small schools, small schools.
Yeah. I can say that with certainty.
That's inspiring and I have to, you know, being honest again, I don't know that I'd ever really thought about a one room school is still a thing like it really is. I just I live in a different place.
Well, I'm curious, I'm assuming just based on what you've even told us now that the resources it must be different. So, you know, if we're talking about systems and routines for these kinds of students, for these situations, what systems and routines have mattered most in your opinion in helping students grow musically when we know that their time and numbers and resources are clearly limited?
Absolutely. One of the things that I've had experience with through my own high school career was sectional rehearsal. That was just a part of being in the band. You had a sectional rehearsal once a week. So when I started teaching, I did the same thing. And what I found, especially in my first job, because again, it was kind of a rebuilding thing. That's why they gave me the keys because nobody else wanted it. But I realized that a lot of the fundamentals for playing a particular instrument were not being taught in the full band rehearsal because there simply wasn't time. We're trying to prepare music for a performance. Students don't want to sit and listen to me tell all the clarinets what the alternate fingerings are on a particular passage of music while they're just sitting in my band class. So we started having sectionals right away and I've done that my entire career. And in those sectionals at least half the time, if not more, was spent on just learning the instrument, even at the high school level, not worrying about learning to play the music, but learning to play the instrument. So I think that was really very helpful. And the other thing was, and I did this in my second job. I did not do it in my first job, but I did it in my second job and continued it throughout my career. It was establishing a mentoring system. The mentoring system was just a game changer. It really was for us. I was the only director. There were no private teachers close by. The closest town was 25 miles away. The closest college was an hour and a half, if not more away, so there was no place for my students to get lessons. I couldn't teach all of them, so I established a mentoring system. My program for my concert band top group was grades seven through 12, so I established the mentoring system having older students teach younger students. The hard work for me was on the front end of establishing, OK, you're going to be teaching flute. This is what I want you to teach. You know, it wasn't teach the music, it was teach the flute. So I had to give very detailed instructions for every instrument. As a young teacher, I was not comfortable with all of the instruments. I got comfortable as quickly as I could, but I reached out to my mentors, college teachers, high school band directors, area band directors that I knew had successful programs and I learned more about the instruments that I was not as comfortable with and established that mentoring program. The thing I realized after a short time was that sometimes the best mentors may not be your best players. They may not be first chair players. As players, it comes easy to us. I'm a trumpet player, that's what I've played my whole life. I'm a better clarinet teacher than I am a trumpet teacher. I'll say it straight up. I've said it forever because I had to work at being a good clarinet teacher. I didn't have to work at being a trumpet teacher because I already knew. I mean, it just came easy to me. So sometimes our best mentors may not be our best players, but they have a heart of service. They want to be a servant, they want to be a servant leader. So I would draw them in. I always invited people to be mentors. I did not ask for volunteers. If they volunteered, of course I would take them into consideration. I did not force students to be mentees. The way I sold it was, hey, 7th graders, 8th graders, you know, we've got some juniors and seniors that may want to be band directors one day. They need to have some practice teaching. Would you be willing to let them practice teach you? Oh, sure. You know, that made them feel special. And then the mentors, the same thing. I always made sure, and this is really important, even more so now than when I started this back in the mid 80s. You know, I made sure admin was in on it. Parents of both mentors and mentees were in on it. These students were going to be spending time together. Not necessarily in a closed room, but in an area away from others. We did little things at the end of the year, like we'd have a mentor mentee recital. They would work up a little duet, give a recital. We had fun names. We had T-shirts printed. You know, we called our first mentor group the MM's, you know, mentor mentee, just anything to make it fun. But the sectional rehearsals along with the mentoring program, it almost gave me like assistant band directors with the mentors. And the outcome that I did not know was going to happen was that sense of ownership of the program that gave the older students and the younger students. They developed relationships that carried on throughout their time in band. They realized the value of helping one another. They understood that working together we could accomplish great things. And the whole mindset of the band was really affected by that program, even though all students were not involved in the program.
That is incredible. That's something that I'm very passionate about is culture within that people come before process and it's something that we, it doesn't come innately for young teachers to develop that type of culture. So it's something that I've been really leaning into recently just in my own study and things that I'm working on and just that program builds that in, which is such an incredible thing. That probably is kind of a byproduct that afterwards you're like, wow, that's even better than what I was hoping for.
You know, we're teaching young people how to be better young people and music is our vehicle. That's kind of how I look at it. I want them to be great musicians. I want them to be successful. I want them to have a passion for music that lasts their lifetime, but I want to try to help make them be the best people they can be because that's what my teachers did for me.
You know, as I'm hearing this, it just it is fascinating and inspiring all at the same time. You know, I mean, it seems as though that small programs rely on students to wear multiple hats, kind of like what you're talking about, right? They have to be student. They are going to help you teach, they're going to help you lead, they're going to help all the things. So how do you cultivate student leadership without burning students out though, or also not lowering musical expectations?
Well, I think that developing leadership skills, it's kind of funny, my husband and I do not agree on this as many things we don't agree on in the band world. To be honest, I think leadership skills can be developed. I don't think we're born natural leaders. I'm sure some people are. I was not. I was an incredibly shy, introverted child. I just was just the opposite of what I am today. And I am today what I am because of band and because of my experiences in band and experiences with fellow educators in professional organizations and things like that. And so I think we can help our students develop leadership skills. And one of the best ways to do it is to help them understand what being a servant leader is. Leader doesn't mean being boss, it means being a worker bee. And so as I have come across things that I needed help with, I would use students in leadership positions. I did not buy into the traditional band leadership, President, vice president, secretary, you know, like a lot of officers are in clubs and things like that. What I found was that if students had a role to play that was helpful to the band, that would help them develop their leadership skills. The first leadership positions that I ever created were librarians because I didn't have time to get all the music ready and our method books, because I'm a strong believer in method books at every level, to get everything ready for students. So I asked a couple of students, would you help me with the music? Would you help me get the library straight? Could you come in? And so they would do that. And it got to the point they were taking pride in it. And my last job in Alabama, I was forbidden to go into the library because the students said, we've got it clean, we've got it in order, you just mess it up, you tell us what you want, we'll go get it and we'll have it ready for you. So I had no problem with that at all. Again, those leadership positions help build that culture and that sense of ownership of the program. I had students that would almost argue about who is going to be in charge of loading the truck with the instruments when we would go somewhere. We created the logistics crew. That was their job. We stood back and let them do it. Little things that really have a purpose and have a meaning for the students to be doing it I think is good. Doesn't have to be on a regular basis, just maybe seasonal for marching band or festival or whatever, But give the students something to do. Let them have that sense of leadership and ownership in the program. We had one student that was our historian. She kept the OR he or she kept a scrapbook all year. Programs. Pictures. Festival programs, anything. Fundraisers. Community outreach performances, you know, playing Christmas tunes at the nursing home or whatever. So again, those are the things. And it all connects with leadership, ownership and band culture. I never felt as if I was willing to sacrifice the quality of what we were doing musically. Karen Gregg is a band director in Colorado. In fact, she's president of the Colorado Band Masters Association. She was on our panel at Midwest this year as well, teaches at a very small school. And she brought up a point that I'd never thought of in this way. She said, oh, you know, she likes to give students choices, but she makes sure that whichever one they choose, she's fine with. So she might say, OK, here's song A or song B, let's listen to them. Which one do you want to play? Well, the students really got excited because they were making that decision. She's going to let us pick which song. Of course, she already knew she would be fine with whichever one they chose. Well, I've never thought to do that. I can guarantee that will happen in my future. So, you know, I don't think we ever need to sacrifice the quality of what we're doing musically with the students, but giving them a choice like that may help them feel as if they're a little more invested in what the programming is going to be. And I think that serves the program well.
Yeah, You just mentioned your library into programming and my thoughts was I was about to go that direction. I'm curious, how do you approach repertoire selection for a smaller ensemble so that it does remain sort of musically rich, but also developmentally appropriate and motivating at the same time? I assume it's maybe a little different for where you are.
It, it is it, it really depends obviously on the band you have. You know you have to program for the band you have, not the band you want to have. To a great extent, a lot of young educators, myself being included when I started teaching, I was not familiar with the literature that was within reach of my students. Through hard work. Luckily in grad school I did get some instruction, some classes on that. But you know, I was at a large high school in Alabama. I had a great university experience in my band program. I was in high school. We played transcriptions every year. I mean, we played wonderful, wonderful music, challenging music. Same thing in college. And then I get to my little Lynn, Alabama band of 26 with a just a crazy instrumentation. And I didn't know where to go. I really did not. So I ask a lot of questions of a lot of teachers. One of the things that I have always, I shouldn't say always, but most of the time I try to do is I choose music that will help develop the students that need development the most. And what I mean by that is if I know my flute section is weak, may be weaker than other sections, I'm going to find some music that is going to challenge them, yet be accessible through hard work because they're not going to get better if I look for music that has weak flute parts. And I think that's true of any section. So I always when choosing music, I'll just real quick go down some things that I consider. Yeah, I don't look at titles, I look at composers. I'm old, so I know who to go to. You know, there I used the example with students and with young directors. And if I'm speaking to a college class, I use the example of literature in school. I think most 9th graders probably still read one of these pieces, either Romeo and Juliet or Diary Van Frank. Not so much To Kill a Mockingbird anymore, but those are, those are quality literature. That's the test of time. It's important educationally. I try to do the same thing in choosing music. So I'll go back and look at composers like Frank Erickson, Charles Carter, you know, Claude C Smith, which granted not for small schools, but I look at composers names. When I'm going down the list, looking at state list or looking at a library, I'll look for composers and then I'll go and check the levels of those pieces. I think probably the only good thing that came out of COVID were composers and arrangers realizing the value of what we now call flex arrangements. Those things have been around for quite a while, but now it has a name to it. I think choosing literature that is good quality, that is relatable to your students, that teaches something about something positive about music history or the development of that style of music. I think that music should be something that is going to be enjoyable to the students. I don't think most of the students, especially in a small program, need to be sitting around while there's, you know, the woodwinds have the melody for, you know, 42 measures in the brass and percussion or twiddling their thumbs. You know, I think you have to look at that. It's important. If you pick a song and you don't have the proper instrumentation, you either rewrite the parts so you do or pick a different song. I had an experience a few years ago. I was judging. I was a fill in judge for Deb Confredo because she was got caught by a snowstorm. So I was a last minute fill in and I was judging a festival and had a clinic session after the band was on stage. Very small band program, 9 flutes, 2 percussion. Don't remember the rest of the instrumentation. They played a piece their director programmed, a piece that called for seven percussion. And I felt so bad, so bad because there were measures of silence while they were on stage. And I took the director aside and I said, do you have percussion out today? He said no. OK, so in the clinic I just made mention that you wonderful flute section here, you know, would any of you be willing to go back and on one song play symbols, play another flute player on another song? Would you play bass drum on this song? Would you have been willing to learn the mallet part and you could have done the auxiliary part, you know, to help cover those parts? Mostly planting the seed in the directors mind of use your students in the best way possible so all of your bank can have success. Years ago I had one tuba player who dropped bands second semester. We were getting ready for state district and state band festival. So I went to my first three chair trombones and I said well you learn to play tuba for the March. Will you learn to play tuba for the second team? Will you learn to play tuba for the third team? And they did. They were glad to do it. We did a couple lessons. We had great success and judges recognized what was happening and appreciated it.
Yeah, that's incredible. This makes me think about and, and perhaps what you just talked about is an answer to this upcoming question, but I am curious be beyond repertoire perhaps and just to help our listeners who are in the same type of situation that you're in and many others. So are you able to talk about a moment in your career where a constraint, being it or be it numbers, instrumentation, scheduling, you know, whatever that had has forced you to rethink your approach and ultimately, however, made the program stronger because of it?
I've two things that came to mind and one is I would say it's not one of my prouder moments, but yet again, I think it is one of my prouder moments. When I started teaching, I started teaching in 1980 before everybody was born and when I when I went to college, I had never seen a female band director. I had an uncle that was a band director and I knew from 7th grade on that's what I wanted to do. But that was back in the day when there weren't, especially in the South, there were not a lot of female band directors. And there, there was a point in my career about year eight that I had to stand up tall. I'm, I'm all of five three. I had to stand up big and tall in the face of an administrator and a coach and fight for my band. I had to fight for my students. I had to say this is not right, this is not fair, this is not what's best for the students involved and this is unacceptable and we are going to have to find a way to resolve this so that it is agreeable to everyone. I cannot have you just tell me this is what's going to happen because that is not going to work. It was very hard, it was very challenging, but I knew in my heart it was the right thing to do sometimes, and I hate that it's this way and it's still this way. Sometimes you just have to stand up for your students. You have to be the voice for them to defend them, defend their efforts and do what you have to, to make things right. You know, there's a lot of Gray area in the world, but sometimes there's right and wrong. And, and I did that and my principal immediately, immediately realized that what I was saying. And I won't even go into the details of what was happening, but he realized, you know, she's right. She's right. We can't just storm, storm over her and just say no, you know, and, and even with the coach, we, we came to an agreement too, that what the issue we were having, we could find a solution that would work for all. It wasn't going to be perfect, but it was going to work for all. So sometimes, sometimes you just have to be willing to do that. And, and I'm not a person that likes confrontation. I would not ever go to bat for myself in that way, but for my friends, my family and my students and bands, I'll do it every time. So for me, that was that was kind of a game changer. And then another time when I realized that what we were doing mattered enough was just a mindset change for me that economics should not be a reason students can't be in my band. I'm going to find a way. I'm going to find a way for them to be in the band. It may not be on the instrument they want, but I'm going to find a way for them to be a part of the program. And no matter what their limitations are, physical, cognitive, whatever, they have a home in my band room and they are welcome. I had a student years ago that her mother wanted her to be in band so badly because her mother had been drum major in her high school band. And this young lady, even when she graduated, she had an Alto sax. I won't say she played Alto sax, She had an Alto sax. And she, I would go down the road tuning and, and she knew how to play F# because that's what I wanted her to tune to. And she could play that note. And every year we would, we would meet the new students that came in and said, OK, now let me talk about and I'll call her name. She's a very special member of our band. She's, she's part of our band family. And we all love her and respect her and treat her with respect. And you're going to do that too. And she graduated and she put on her high school stuff. She was in the band and she was, she was there every day. She, she was a part of the group. She always had a smile. And, and those are the students that I want to reach out to as well, not just the ones that are the great players.
I love that. I think that's great. I do, I want to go backward just for a second, though. You were talking about administrators and I so that got my, my mind thinking. And you'd mentioned earlier that in these smaller communities, like everything revolves around the school sure does. So, so obviously community buy in is essential for, for these smaller schools. So I'm Are there strategies that have helped you build trust and advocacy with administrators, parents, and these broader communities?
Oh, definitely. Yeah. We've all heard the expression big fish in a little pond. You know, that's kind of what a band director is. The head football coach and the band director, everybody knows who you are. If they go to the football games or if they go to parades or whatever events you have in your school, a pep band or whatever, they know who you are and that can be a good thing. And it can be a challenge as well. You know, you always know people are watching what you're doing. But I think it's important. I think once the community, the school community is all the stakeholders involved, you know, your admin, your fellow teachers, your citizens, once they see improvement in the band, I think you're going to gain their support. That's what they want to see, and they want growth. I don't care how small the school is, they want growth. So if you start out with six and by cooperating with other activities and being willing to share students and making sure that everybody gets to participate in all the things they want to because they don't have enough students to feel just a team, just a band, just a FBAFBLA club, just FFA, you know that all these students are in everything. So you have to learn to share. Band directors aren't usually good at that, but you have to learn to do that, especially in a small community. Once they see that happening, I think you're going to gain their support. Another thing that's really important is to realize, and this is not, not just for small schools, this is for any size school. You know, the majority of people in your community are not going to come to a concert. They're not going to go to a football game. Some will do both, some will do one or the other, but there are a lot of people in your community that won't do any of that. So anytime you can get your band out there to perform in any way in that small community, have them do it. Find a local nursing home. It may be 20 miles, it may be 30 miles down the road, but take a group down there to play Christmas ensembles. You have a VFW and the veterans are getting together, or you have a veteran's day program. Do something to get your students in front of those people that may not normally see them in a traditional band performance setting. Find a local civic club, find a local business. There may not be a business in your town like in Lynn. There was, there was nothing there. But my parents in our community had to go buy groceries somewhere. They had to shop somewhere, They had to bank somewhere. So you go to the next largest town where people are and you, you make performance opportunities for those people. I know during COVID here in Mandan, we, we, I did the marching band here. Even after I retired, I continued to do that for a short time. It's the only Fuel marching band in North Dakota. So yeah, so why not? We did concerts in the park outside. Of course, we had to be socially distanced. We went to an area of town that has senior citizen apartments. We did a socially distanced concert outside on their lawn and they brought out their lawn chairs and sat around. We go around at Christmas and play Christmas ensembles. We'd stand in the Walmart produce department or go down to the local grocery store or go to the Hardee's where we know all that the oldsters have coffee in the morning right when we get out and let people see the band doing things. It doesn't have to be perfect performances, needs to be songs the community knows, but they appreciate it and they recognize the efforts of the students and the efforts of the director for doing that.
Yeah. And I think that's great. That's a lot of a lot of great opportunities for community buy in. I love all of it. I don't think it should be every not small schools, but all of. Everybody needs to be everybody. Should be doing this, yeah.
Exactly.
So this makes me think about, but, and before I ask my question, I do want to say emphatically actually, that one of the one of the best marching bands that I've ever judged in my entire career, and it's still true today, had 30 people in it. Absolutely. A small little school and then it was impressive. I even went. I actually walked down from the box to talk to, I don't know what you're doing, but it was genius, you know, I mean, it was really well, it was very, it was wisely written, it was wisely arranged. The drill was smart, you know, but there's not a single person hiding anything.
Exactly.
You know, there's ownership, there's execution, there's buying. Man, it was so cool. I was. Probably here every individual student playing. Right.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
So my question is from your experience, what misconceptions do you think exist about small school band programs and how do you push back against those two people that ultimately have those kinds of misconceptions?
If you're talking about, well, when you say people, are we talking about general public? Are we talking about fellow band directors?
Probably both, but. But probably a little bit of really, but that's kind of a narrative small, you know? Yeah, that's a small school.
You know, a lot of people think that small schools mean you can't achieve quality, can't perform quality music or, or perform music to a great quality. And that's simply not true. One of the things that I have found as I go around and, and work in different settings, doing professional developments or, or honor bands or whatever, whatever, wherever, when I get very discouraged and I don't get discouraged often, but I do get discouraged when I hear people making excuses for their programs that kind of gets my feathers all ruffled up a little bit. Because if you teach at the Colony in Texas, 4 + 4 is 8. If you teach in rural Wyoming, 4 + 4 is 8. Those math teachers can't make excuses. Well, we're in rural Wyoming. I'm in, you know, podunk, Mississippi, wherever. You can't make excuses. You have to do the job. And I don't like, well, I can't do this because I don't have a tuba. Well, do you have a bass clarinet? Got a Barry sax? You know, figure out what's your lowest voice instrument that you have. Find music that you can rewrite and make it happen. Quality teaching is quality teaching. You know, you do have limitations, obviously instrumentation, finances, time, because you are sharing students all over the place. But it doesn't mean you can't have a great successful program and give those students musical experiences that are the kind that you want to give them that students are getting in large programs everywhere. You know, the value of a student in a small program is much greater to that program than the value of a student in a large program. If you have 3 trumpets in your small school and you've got 12 trumpets in your large school top group, and one of those trumpets is missing, big deal, it's covered. The value, the worth of those students in those small schools is greater in its own way because of that. So the joys and the rewards of teaching in a small school can be amazingly greater or equal to any program in a large school. The challenges, the deficit, if you will, may be that you might not get to play the literature that you've always wanted to play. That's that's the truth of the matter. It doesn't mean you can't play great literature, but you may not get to play those things that you remember from your high school days, me or music you played in college. You may have to find other resources to get the fulfillment for that yourself. Playing in a community band or directing a community band or going and being part of a local college, an additional ensemble or something like that. But you know, quality teaching should be across the board no matter where we are. And, and yes, the challenges are there, there's no doubt, but the rewards are equally as great, if not greater than in many other places. I'm not sure if that answers your question or not, but it that's. Kind of how.
Yeah, absolutely. You know, and so sorry, just very quickly, David, please. It's interesting that you mentioned the Colony, TX, I can say because I used to teach there as a matter of fact, oddly and I started there. I started there did. You teach with Dick Clardy.
I did and Amanda drink water.
Party's a buddy of ours. A big buddy.
Yeah, I. I, I owe him a significant part of, of my career, but I can say with certainty that their 4 + 4 does equal 8. And which is like, all of a sudden you said the colony. I'm like, wait a minute. And I was so very specific.
It was very specific, really. Well, it's part. Of the gold standards band so.
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, it's, I mean, what a great conversation. And it's, you know, it sounds to me, you know, if a director's resourceful, they, they shouldn't, you just mentioned they should expect the same, you know, level of quality of themselves and of their students. But you do have to be more resourceful, it looks like. So I all the information you've shared to me is, has been really, it's helpful for me even thinking about, you know, my, it's getting my wheels turning. But I am curious for, for these directors that are currently leading or they're about to inherit, you know, a program that's on the smaller side, is there a, you know, 1 mindset shift that you, you believe would be most like an immediate change in how they experience their work and their students?
I think that someone that's in a small school or is about to go to a small school, especially if you've been in a larger school and if, and again, if you're a young teacher, finding mentors for yourself there, there's just no greater resource in the world. I was so fortunate and I bet both of you are as well. I had some of the best mentors. Ever. And I still have a Richard Crane is a mentor. You know, Dick Clardy's a mentor. I mean, I was looking at one of his handouts just a couple months ago that he did here in North Dakota years ago. I still learn from people every day. Don't be afraid to reach out and ask questions that you feel are silly. I get a little bent out of shape sometimes with our social media platform, some of the band director pages and someone in, in complete honesty will post a question that you and I probably knew the answer to year one, but maybe they didn't. And, and they just, they have a legitimate question and we need to give them legitimate answers. We don't need to give them snarky comments. Why didn't you learn? You should already know that or whatever. You know, they're asking. They want help. So we need to help people find a mentor. You know, if you with, with zoom and cell phones and all the technology we have, you don't have, they don't have to be in the next town. They could be across the country. They could be me. I don't care. Just find somebody that you can bounce ideas off of, find somebody that you can share recordings with, Find someone that can help you feel less isolated. That's one of the biggest challenges of band directors in small school settings because you're the only one. Often you're the only music teacher in the building, in the in that school. And you need that connection with fellow educators, with fellow music educators, with fellow band directors. So find those people, reach out to them, establish a timeline where there's a scheduled time for you to get with them to get the support you need, or just a shoulder to cry on or a wall to bounce an idea off of. Don't forget those people don't go to that small school and think I have to do it all myself because you're not alone. Feels like it, but you're really not. Reach out to people and, and get their input and get their help and, and understand that you're going to a school where students are going to want to be successful for you. They're they're proud of their teachers because quite honestly, they know how hard it is sometimes to get teachers to come to their schools. So they want you to be successful. They want you to be happy. And if you're working together, you're going to be able to please them and they're going to please you and their parents and your admin and the faculty in the community. And it's just going to grow and grow and grow and grow and give you such a great feeling to know what you've brought to their lives. You know, right, We're all in this because of music, and we're still in it because of. Music.
Yes, we are. We want to be in it because of music and you can give that to your students too.
That's so great. Years later and think, you know, we have, we have a man in our community band that my husband found it and I play in when I don't have a broken arm. He's 86 and he still come. He can barely walk, but he still comes to band every week. He can't carry his out Tony and somebody brings it in for him, but he's still there. He. Should do that. Does his best and that's what we want.
I love that. That is so perfect. It's such good information. Great.
It is inspiring, great information, inspiration, all of it Together. We're about to shift directions and I think this next question you're going to have some stuff for, so I look forward to. The answer So all right, Becky, so here's the time in the in the episode where we ask a couple questions of all of our guests over the past now Four Seasons. So I don't take the first one. Do you have a soapbox topic? And it can be about anything, musical life, whatever you want.
Soapbox. I feel like there's a rolodex going on in here. Wow, this. I could get myself in trouble on this one.
I hope so. Might go viral.
I'm going to answer it and you can feel free. This might be one of those things to edit out and I'm fine with that. I don't have children and but I've taught for taught a lot of kids and parents need to parent. And that's that's kind of a harsh statement for someone that doesn't have children. But darn it, be a parent. Don't be their friend. You know, anytime we have an issue with a student. Not anytime. Most of the time we have issues with students, it's not the students. Yeah, the lack of parenting at home and God's given you the blessing of these children. Do your job. Don't give me a feel free to cut that, I'm fine. Next question moving. On.
Well, I'll tell you. I think we should just let that marinate for a second.
I. Think we're just going to let that go?
Well, yeah. Well, that, you know, we do face this and it's changed, you know, parenting and the role of the teacher in the classroom has evolved over the last 345 decades. And what our band teachers are dealing with now, they're wearing other hats that, you know, we didn't have to wear 30-40 years ago. So I can, I can certainly understand and hear your frustration. And having seen that it's a reality now that when you walk in, you may be that student in front of you. And this is what I hear from that, the student in front of you, there's some, there's two other people, maybe more behind them that aren't providing the support that now we have to provide. And we have to see, we have to focus our lens differently because of it. You know, we still have to love those children and help build them up knowing that these parents just aren't doing it. You, you said the word. That's the word. We have to love them.
Yeah. Because when they're out of our classroom and when they go home, we don't know what kind of love they're getting. That's right.
Yeah. And giving them our love and giving them the love of music is the very best job we can do for them. Right. So your soapbox frustration is, is a reality on it. I mean, you can, we can call it a soapbox, but it's a reality that we do have to just embrace and love them more. So I appreciate that. So my question is easier, is there a particular book or books that have inspired your journey? Again, don't have to be musical, just books that may have inspired you.
You're really gonna laugh at this? I love the Chicken Soup series of books. She can suit for the. Soul, she can suit the teacher, she can suit for the this, she can suit for the that. Because I love inspiring stories. Right. I, I, I Richard Floyd's books, I've read those. I, I really, I like his stuff. I've learned a lot from that. I'm, I'm not the, the things that I read for pleasure are, are usually biographies and things like that. The things that I read that have helped inspire and direct my teaching. Shelly Jago, her books are just, they're more like method books, but I love them. I've learned so much from them And I can't remember the name of the book and I apologize I can't remember her name. Your listeners probably will know who I'm talking about. The name will probably come to me. I actually went to a professional development about 15 years ago that like a real school professional development and I walked away changed, which most band directors don't feel that way about professional development. But Ruby Payne is her name. And the thing I remember that she said was that when dealing with parents of a low socio economic level and dealing with their children, you have to realize and recognize that their child is the thing they have that is of their greatest value. And they will defend that child and their actions to the bitter end that you have to deal with those parents differently. And I, I really think about that a lot when dealing with, with parents, if there's an issue because that, that's, they don't have the fancy house, the fancy car, the, the, the income and all that. They have their child and that's their most precious thing. And that's all they have in some instances. So you really, you really have to deal with those parents and those students in a special way. And I, I feel comfortable that I've learned to do that over the years. And thank you. Ruby Payne, I can't remember the name of the book, but she really, she changed my idea.
I want to give you one comment about the books for the chicken soup for the whatever. I wanted to write a series of books called Beer Cheese Soup for the band directors. Sold because sometimes chicken soup just isn't strong enough.
Yeah. Down the road thing I want to try to put. Together,
Well, we look forward to that set. I'm coming. Out immediately. That's so good. So, Becky, I have the ultimate question and arguably the most important one so far today. What is your favorite time signature?
68. 68 Very definitive.
Excellent. OK. Well, Becky, we accept the answer, but the correct answer was common time just to be just to be real clear. So fun talking to you. Are. So inspiring. I want every teacher in America to hear you speak.
Well, can I? Can I do a shameless plug here? I'll do I'll. Do a combo here. Richard Crane and what he's doing with the Midwest board as past president and the small school initiative is simply amazing. It is absolutely amazing and I'm so proud to have been asked to be a small part of that. Along with Stan Malden and through Stan and Richard and myself, we have started the NASS B National Association of Small School bands. It is a non, non do thing. It's just we want to give resources to directors in small schools. And if you go to the National Association small school bands.com website, you can sign up for it. We're going to start putting out resources. It's in its infant stages, but we just want to make sure that those directors in those small schools realize that there's a help out there. There are resources for you. Any of us reach out. You can find us on social media. You can find us. Just Google it. You can get an e-mail address, whatever. We're there to help. And those of us that are retired, we love being asked to help, whether it's a phone call, a Zoom, a, you know, I got a pretty good car, I can drive a distance if need be. We want to help because we know what it meant to us to have helped early in our careers. So let us help. Let us do what we can to help you and your students and your.
Yes. Well, thank you. Thank you. National Association of Small School bands.com for everyone out there. We had Mr. Crane on I guess a couple of seasons ago. We love Mr. Crane. He's he lives nearby with myself and my wife. So we see him, we see him once a month or so. We certainly love him and his initiative is fantastic. It's something I know it's paste passionate about it. We talk about it every time we have breakfast together. So thank you. Thank you for your work with that and also just your like your passion that you're continuing to share we the servant leadership that you talked about.
Yeah. Thank you so much. For asking and listeners, make sure you check out every edition of Common Time.
Awesome. Thanks so much. Thanks, Becky.
Thank you.
And that's a wrap on today's episode. Thanks for spending part of your day with us on the Comment Time podcast. If today's conversation gave you something to think about or something to try with your students, we'd love for you to share this episode with a colleague. And you can also follow us on social media for episode clips, behind the scenes content, and updates to our upcoming guests. And if you haven't already, please be sure to subscribe so that you never miss an episode. Until next time, keep making music and keep making a difference.