Welcome to the Common Time Podcast, a show designed to give music educators practical, inspiring ideas for you and your program. Each week we sit down with world class educators, composers, and conductors to talk about teaching, leadership and building programs that thrive without burning yourself out. So whether you're a band, orchestra, or choir director, our goal is simple to help you grow and stay inspired and remember why you fell in love with teaching music in the first place. This is season 4, and we're diving even deeper. More real conversations, more actionable takeaways, and more voices shaping the future of music education. Let's get into the episode. Our guest today is Linda Pauly. Welcome, Linda.
Hi.
So we're so happy to have you today, Linda. So Linda is currently serving in her 21st year as a band director in Jefferson County Public Schools in Louisville, KY. She was highly recommended to us by John Strubby. So we're really thankful for the opportunity to talk with you today. John, why don't you go and get us started?
Thanks, David. Hi, Linda. How are you?
I'm good. How are you doing?
I am so excited to be talking to you today. So I'm just going to dive right in. So as a leader in the field, a public school, a music education, both in the state of Kentucky and nationally, are you able to share with us your ideas about as you walk into rehearsal, what are the non negotiables that you look for that'll tell you whether the culture of a band program is healthy?
Well, first, you know, you got to teach the students what they should be looking for, where it should be healthy. So for example, my 6th grade band, the first day of school, we talk about rules and expectations and how to come into the classroom. So that's the first thing. So you have to model what you really want because the biggest thing that I really, I just will not let pass — we start class on time. For example, my 7th grade band starts at 1:05. We don't start at 1:07. They only have 5 minutes to get from their other class to my classroom, get their instrument and music ready, but they know at 1:05 I'm starting without them on the warm up and so they're ready to go. So it takes time and patience to build up that — or you know, I'm really taking my time to put my clarinet together. So you have to start modeling for those students what you want. And it might take a couple weeks, it might take a month, but if you model what they want, they'll eventually get to it.
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Systems and processes seem to go a long way, especially with beginners. But I would say — I mean we change the cliche level, but the systems and processes. I still do it like — yeah, I live and breathe it. Starts downbeat, drops, you're there. The expectations are known. It's so important. Thank you for saying that.
Yeah. Well, just as I was thinking about this — as a when I was a first year teacher, I didn't really know what you just said. I wasn't really great at that. My class started in second period and we had announcements and I kind of just let the kids just — they were just kind of there. And the director of bands came out well within about two days and said, David, we need to talk about the beginning of class. When the kids enter the room, they will enter quietly and go to their seats and listen to the announcements so that the moment they're done, you can begin rehearsal without all of this external noise in their minds. And to his credit, I still do it and it makes a huge difference on how you start class. So I do appreciate you saying that. So let's skip to another thing here. Many directors, I think, feel pressure to just get to the music as quickly as they can. I'm curious, how do you help teachers see that investing in culture actually accelerates musical growth rather than slowing it down? Like really getting to how we do this versus like, let's play music now.
Right. So the biggest thing for me — because I taught high school band for 15 years and then transitioned to middle school — the process that we've always talked about when we're learning music is the method book. I don't jump right into the music because I know that's the first thing that even my first year of teaching, I know I probably did that because you had to get this ready to go for assessment. And I took my job in the middle of the year in January and I didn't even know any of the kids and it's my first job and I had to get them ready. So I'm like, I'll just dive into the music, but didn't think about scales, articulation strategies for them, tuning. You know, those things are not talked about a lot and those are things that need to happen. So for me, I really spent a lot of time in the method book working on fundamentals before the music. A lot of times, like for our winter concert, I gave the kids maybe two or three weeks — say here's some music, let's go through it. And that's another thing — mapping is really important for me, for my students and myself. Like you got to have a pencil and a highlighter. Let's go over the process. What are the symbols you need to look for? What's your time signature? Are there any key changes? Time changes. Even in middle school, 6th grade, we talk about who has to lead, who has a counter melody. We break that down before we play it, and that's pretty important.
Talk just a little bit more about that. So you use the term mapping and pencils and highlighters — what do you do more specifically?
So on there, you have to teach them what you're looking for. It's like, for example, 6th graders — that's like, I need you to find the time signature and tell me what it is. So they know it's 4/4, 3/4, 2/4. I said, I need you to highlight that. So they'll highlight in a different color. And then it's like, all right, let's look for dynamics. Like what do we have? Like, oh, piano, forte, mezzo forte — they do that a different color. Or there's a ritardando or you know, this, this so simple. So we use like maybe no more than three colors just to recognize that. And also in their band, they have a band folder. So a lot of students get the ones with the plastic covers that are around the music so they can still write on it — you can get them on Amazon. But they have their music organized in a way where they know they need to have a pencil. I always have a bucket of highlighters for the kids. But before we start the music, we go over those things and then I let them listen to the music. And that's like, OK, who has the melody at measure 5? Who has the counter melody? So they understand who's leading and who needs to stay under. And we teach that in 6th grade.
I love that. It's so important — I don't think, I know it is so important to teach students the fundamentals of every part of music. It isn't just how to play their instrument. Obviously that's our job, that's critical. But understanding what the symbols mean, how to interpret those symbols in a codified way, person to person, having a codified vocabulary, understanding these things. But oftentimes I think — this is where my opinion comes in — many teachers think that these skills are innate in our students. Do you agree with that or am I wrong?
They just think that they know it, but you got to go over that same process. Even like we're getting ready for the state conference and playing at Music for All — I'm like, OK, even though they're 8th graders and they know the process, let's go over it. And that's like, hey, what's the time signature? I need you to highlight this. And the one or two kids that won't do it — that's like, OK, you're not ready to play with us. So if they're not doing what I need them to do or follow directions, they're not going to watch me conducting, they're not going to watch what I want to do. And that's another thing about the mapping — after you got everything taken care of and playing the piece, it's about watching me. I'll say, hey, this is something I'm going to do when I conduct — you know, I might do a different gesture for a crescendo or for how I want you to articulate. And I want you to know that so you know who I am as a conductor. So we break that down too.
So also as a follow up — before I ask a specific question about expectations, because these all fall under that by the way — talk to us just a bit about the binder that you have the students create, because it's such an important tool that I think teachers sometimes overlook. Why do you do it? How do you do it? How does that work?
OK, the reason why I do it is because I just want the kids not to lose their music. And copy music at the same time. And I told the kids, honestly, I said do you want a copier or do you want a band director? I said because I only have one hour of planning to make copies or do every meeting I have to do, and then staying after school. Like we have jazz band, we have after school lessons and there's so much — I can't always stay after school because I got to take care of my little Chihuahua. I got to get home. She's 16 years old. So there's so much. And then I play in Louisville Winds, that just played at Midwest, and I played at Midwest two years ago. Both groups I've played in both groups now for 15 years and they both played at Midwest twice, so all together I've played four times, which I'm — that's a blessing. But the notebook, the binder, it's just organizing your music and organizing your warmups. It's just having it there. And kids keep everything from 6th grade to 8th grade — every piece that we played, or every all-county or all-state piece, they keep that as — I won't say as a keepsake — but when it's time for them to do their applications for high school, or their — it used to be called Backpack for Success, I think it's Journey for Success in JCPS — you had to defend how much you learned from 6th grade to 8th grade, and a lot of people used their band binder to go back like, hey, in 6th grade we learned O Christmas Tree and had two key changes that we had to learn. And so they'll talk about that process of what they had to do. So the notebook is — well, we do a notebook and we do a binder. It's like a process of all the stuff that you've done from 6th grade through 8th grade and all the music that you learn. And it also is just organization because I try to tell the kids and the parents — it's like in August, can you get a binder, a black binder you can decorate. It's yours. And so if a kid loses it, we know who to give it to. Sometimes I have to tell the kids, you got a lot of music, I think you might need to retire that music and start over for 7th grade and 8th grade. But it's a lot about organization skills for kids because it helps them be organized. Because every day they have to look at the board where I put all their expectations, but also where they want to go to high school. A lot want to go to the Youth Performing Arts School, you know, slash Manual High, duPont Manual High School. And it's really high-paced learning. And it is — no, too — a lot of people think it's like a walk, but no, middle school, no, it's a sprint. Those kids, I mean, they are learning quickly. I have a kid right now that he was a nice 7th grader, but he leaves my band program a little early to go take his math classes with graduate students at U of L. That's the type of student we have in our building. They're pretty brilliant — math, you name it. But a lot of times, they're middle school kids, they don't know how to organize, so you have to teach them. You have to teach the skill set.
Yeah, absolutely. Organization, because that is not innate — as we all know that have been there. So I'm going to ask about expectations because you are known for having high expectations. However, you do that while maintaining trust and warmth. How does that balance look day-to-day with interactions with students?
Well, again with the expectations — at the very beginning of the school year, I just tell the students like your — well, our handbook, this is what I expect you to do. And then they see it daily on the board — the expectation for how to sit up straight, how to have your feet on the floor when you're playing, thinking about your tone, balance and blend, how you blend with the ensemble. So that's all daily and you have to keep saying that to them. Eventually they'll get it, but modeling the expectation. For example, every week I send a weekly reminder. The kids get it, the parents get it, whoever is on Infinite Campus — that's the way I send it through — or I put it on the band website, but it's a list of everything that's going on for the week or throughout the year. And I have people like, this is a lot of information — that's like, I know, but I'm not going to be the teacher that says that. They said, oh, she didn't give us enough information. I actually will cover everything because they'll know that it's there, because I'll have parents and they're like, oh, I didn't see that. That's like, it's OK, it is a lot of information, but that weekly reminder that I send them just gives them the expectations I'm looking for — as a parent of my program and as a student. And yes, sometimes people are going to make mistakes and you just got to help them out and let them know like, this is what you got to do, you got this much time to get it done. But yeah, the expectations — just going back over what you want and being clear about what you want. Because one thing — chaos is not what I want for a kid, or confusion. And sometimes, especially where a teacher is gifted and talented, they want to impress you. So don't ask you again, Miss Pulley, is this exactly what you mean? And when I first started teaching there, I was like, are they — I just said what I want them to do. But then I realized, oh, they're really asking again because they don't want to make a mistake. So for me, I'm like OK, it's OK to reiterate that because they want to do this correctly. And I think it's just middle school students — they don't want to make a mistake, so they want to ask you again.
They do. I — you know, I used to when I was teaching 6th grade — this has been a long time ago — but I will tell you those kids, it's probably my favorite class to ever teach. I shouldn't tell any of my other students that, but I'll tell you those little kids would run through a wall if I told them to do it. They were like little sponges. So it made me have to be a better teacher — or I would be giving them information and then two days later going, well, I have to change that, that wasn't right. Like I really had to think ahead of them because they would soak it all up and ask questions and really want to please me. It was all about pleasing me, which was a huge responsibility as a teacher — realizing these little kids want to please me. And if I don't know my stuff, if I'm not on my A game, then they're getting a B version of me, which in turn is not what they deserve. And now I've let them — just a whole circular thing in my brain. But it really made me have to be a better teacher teaching little kids, because they were just such sponges. So now, did I hear correctly that you're playing at your state conference and Music for All in the coming semester?
Yes.
Are you crazy?
You know, I applied for Music for All first. And that's like, you know, Kevin Callahan — he's the director of bands at YPAS — and he's like, let's apply, see what happens. Because we just played at the Minority Band Directors National Association in Atlanta with the Jazz Band and Symphonic Band and they — their venue's amazing.
Congratulations.
They were great. And it's like, you know, let's see what happens. So I just applied for that first, and so much like, you should apply for the state conference. And I'm like, I don't know, we've never been picked for the years I've been there, but the jazz band's been picked. I was like, maybe just stick with one and learn from this. And it's like, no, just apply. So I applied for that. And actually when I got back from Europe with the Kentucky Musicians Abroad, that evening I got an e-mail and I just didn't know what it was. And then he said, you know, you're getting another one. So I listened to all my recordings from all the judges — it's like, this is great stuff to use for the fall. And then I get a call — it's like, hey, you know, you're the only band that's out that's not from Texas. I'm like — oh my goodness.
There you go.
I was like, OK, this is going to be amazing. And so I — it's fantastic. Back in July and then you know that time to tell you like, hey, you got to wait until we make an announcement for everything.
Can't tell everybody.
Can't tell everybody. So all I knew — and my principal knew and the students from my school and Kevin Callahan knew because he encouraged me to do that. But a couple of weeks later, you get the e-mail from KMEA — it says, hey, your group's ready to play at conference. I'm like, I can't make an announcement about Music for All yet.
Yeah.
And I'm like, OK, let's make an announcement for the first date. And the kids already knew. And that's like, hey, let's be quiet about this. And then August 15th, made the announcement for Music for All. And I'm like, oh my goodness. So it's definitely been a process because our state conference music — I already have that ready for those kiddos. And then we go to nationals. I know some things are going to be pulled out and replaced with something else. So all together, it's like they learn 68 selections to be ready for this. And then on top of that, their fall concert, their winter concert, all county, all states, someone ensemble, honor bands on top of that. And then auditions for their high school audition for the youthful forming arts school.
Yeah. What? You got a lot going on, man, I'll tell you so. Well, now I'm curious. So I mean, you don't get invited to play at these at these really prestigious, you know, events unless excellence is a standard. I mean, you just, you just don't. But I, I know that when we talk about excellence, there's different ways to approach that in rehearsal. So I'm curious, how do you, how do you communicate excellence in a way that feels invitational, I guess, rather than rather than punitive? And especially when students don't hit the mark if they fall short of the standard in rehearsal, like how do you balance trying to achieve excellence without sounding like punitive in rehearsal, but still us all go in the same direction. How do you — you have to do something because there's going to always be kids that don't quite show up prepared.
It happens. So there's with my 8th grade group when they're in 6th grade, I had this, I don't know, it just came out. I said there's no I in band, but there's an I in ice cream. I said, do you show your ice cream? They're like, no. So they actually made a bag of this in the poster. But I, you know, the biggest thing I tell the kids and band, there's no individual. It's a group thing. And some of us are going to be better musicians and some of us are still learning. And so getting to that process. So for me, I have to remind them that because I do have students that are top players in the state and they see some of their classmates not there. And I'm like, you have to realize you take private lessons. That student might not have private lessons or they might have other things going on in their life that, you know, cause not to practice as much to do. So we all — all together day one, we're on the same level and we're all team, team effort and, you know, helping each other out. When it comes to the expectation of the class, like I'll say it again, it's just you can just got to model it. And be honest. So for example, I'll talk to my 6th graders through 8th grade. I say for this piece, the quarter note is going to equal 138 for this piece. I need you to put that on the music. This is your goal. So when you're talking about your goal for the ensemble and their performance goal, their even their etiquette rehearsal etiquette goal or the concert etiquette rehearsal goal and talk about that with them. It helps out to even everything. Now is it going to be perfect? You know, some, there's always that kid in the back that's going to be talking and you have to, you know, ring that back in. But this is like an ongoing, like tuning is a process. Expectations are a process. It's a process. But I did tell them excellence breeds excellence. When we're all excellent, it carries on to the other ensembles in the school and also carries on for the next year. And that's a big model at no middle school when I got hired, you know, everything in that building is just excellent, you know. And so they expect excellence from everyone, not just one person or one ensemble. Everybody shows excellence.
You know, and then also going along with that, though, I think to create excellence, not only does the teacher have to have a strong understanding of instrument pedagogy, ensemble pedagogy, artistic elements, those kinds of things, but it also takes a very clearly defined and codified system or routine. So my question is — and it can be as specific as you want because I do think this will help our listeners who are trying to find new ways to tweak their systems — what systems or routines have you found that are the most effective for reinforcing expectations consistently, even on days when the student energy may be low or they might not be motivated as much? How do you deal with that?
OK, this is really a simple one — greet your students every day. They will figure out the energy from you right there at the door. If it's been a long day, the kids know, they're like, OK, it's been a long day for Miss Pulley, let's just chill out. But you get these kids at the door every time. Next thing, you have to model. Model everything. How the door is open, how the room is set up, how everything is on the board. What's going to be talked about — like before I start rehearsals, like, hey guys, today's lesson is this. This is what we're going to do, this is our expectation from now to the end of class, and there's no downtime in the band room at no middle school. The moment we start to the moment we end, it's almost at times I kind of go to the very end too much that they can't get to their class because we're so involved in that. So modeling those basics — because I keep everything really simple — just modeling what you want in your classroom to make sure it's smooth, where there is minimum talking, there's no distraction, where you have to stop rehearsal, call security because somebody's having a moment, which that happens in schools. You know, you got to figure out how — and you got to model. Modeling also starts with you. You got to go through the process of how your class will look like from the first day to the last day. And that's why lesson planning is important. You can't just get on the podium and just whip it out and just get everything ready to go. You have to plan what you're doing because when you don't, it just doesn't work. And you know, it's like, I wish I had enough time on this piece, and that's happened to me, you know, but you just got to make sure you're modeling first before you can model out to your ensemble. Post, post, post, post — you got to tell them what's on your board, what you want to do. That's with modeling as well. You got to be real with the students and honest of who you are. You can't be somebody else because that is so confusing for a child. That's confusing for me as an adult. You got to be yourself because there's been plenty of times in this career over 20 years where I see people being one way and then being another way. And that right there just let me know — confusion means I need to walk away. So you just got to be you and be authentically you. And then also you got to make sure — because there's proactive and reactive — and a lot of times when pressure's really high, we tend to be reactive and you're like, oh, I could have done that better. But being proactive, like hey, this could be a problem, and let's have a solution for that. And everything — that's pretty much what I do. And there's some things like I miss and I'm like, oh, I didn't think about that. Good, I need to add that to the list. So nobody is perfect, because that's one thing where I teach — I try to tell the parents, because every year we have our open house and our mini open houses where people can see me teach the little ones, the 6th graders, teach the advanced band and jazz band. They're like, oh my gosh, this sounds amazing. How are you going to make my kids sound like this? And it's like, we started day one. They have to learn how to play their instrument with no experience or anything. But a lot of people see it as perfection. It's not, you know. We want excellence. That's what I want, not perfection. Perfection is not real, but excellence comes with a process of getting from A to Z. And so it's pretty much that.
Yeah, no, that's wonderful. I, you know, you mentioned proactive and reactive. And this is something that in the last, I would say about 18 years of my life, I've been really — I read a book called Upstream by Dan Heath and it talks about — and I've integrated this into the things that I'm teaching now — it's making proactive decisions that are upstream. You're dealing with the problem before it gets downstream and we have to fix it. But you just mentioned, like, when something comes up, I'm going to make a list because that one got away from me. I need to create a system so that I don't have that problem again. Whereas reactive is like whack-a-mole. You're just waiting to figure out which thing do I hit next, and that — you used the word earlier — chaos. I think to me that is chaotic, and students are reactive to chaos like it doesn't feed into excellence, honestly. So being proactive, right? Yeah. So it's such an important — it's just going to happen. So anyway, that's great information. So I'm curious in terms of, you know, programs of strong culture that we've observed — and it would be including yours — accountability often comes from the students themselves, like over time the students are holding themselves accountable. So I'm curious, do you intentionally cultivate a sense of ownership with your groups?
I do. Even though, like — when you apply for the school that I teach at, I remind the students and the families: you know, this is the process that we're going through, and you always have maybe one or two like, this is so much. And it's like, we told you on day one, when we did the process, this is what it's about. And that's just not with me, it's just anything in our building. So if you apply for something, you need to crescendo through it and do it, I mean seriously. And also I ask my students and my families, like, if there's something that you need, let us know. Like for example, is our concert black? I, you know, I just do simple black pants, like a button down shirt with black buttons. I'm very detailed about what they need to get, and I tell them in August. We'll always have — it's the time for the concert in December. They're like, I didn't know this. And this is why I do that weekly reminder and put it in there every time, because somebody can't say Miss Pulley didn't tell me this. I told you this and I modeled this. But sometimes it takes somebody a little longer. It's not to be malicious or anything, it just takes a little longer. And so I'm always ready, like, I think we got some extra black shoes or black pants or black shirts that you can use. And so pretty much it's just you got to keep telling them and letting them know, right?
You know, so when expectations are so high, I would imagine that the students — I mean, they aren't trying to be bad, they're not trying to do bad things, they're not trying to, you know, not follow the rules. But I would imagine if they do make a mistake, it could probably feel pretty heavy for students, right. So how do you create a rehearsal environment where it's OK to be a risk taker, but taking risks in an environment where they feel safe, and but they know that the standards are uncompromising? How — how do you do that? How do you create that environment?
It's just, you know, it really starts with them at the beginning with being 6th grade. So they have to play this test called the beast mode challenge. And this really starts where I figure out who will play in front of the audience, who's not going to play, it might need a partner. So before we play — and it's like a playing test — and then we take it to the next level where you can get your name on the golden stand. OK, so when they take their tests, it's like, hey, if you make a mistake, keep going. If you make a mistake and you feel nervous and stop, take a breather, start all over. But one thing I will tell the kids — if somebody makes a mistake, you can't be laughing at somebody. And that's like, if anybody's laughing at you because you make a mistake, you're not the problem. They are. There's something going on more beyond the surface. So don't worry about that. You know, make a mistake for me or anything of that nature where, you know, just get to the process. But when we do the beast mode challenge for the name on the golden stand, it's like — before we do this, if you know that you get really upset because you didn't win, you're doing it for the wrong reasons. Sit down until you're ready. So I'm honest with them about somebody is going to win and somebody's going to learn. I don't like to use the word lose because I don't think anybody loses, but they do learn.
Win or learn, I love that.
And so I'm really honest because I mean, kids can be competitive anywhere and if they're not going to win, somebody can have a tantrum. I'm not ready for that. So I honestly say — do not, because I mean, there's going to be a winner and we're going to learn from our process what we need to do. So it's just those processes, just going over that. Now we're moving forward — 7th and 8th grade, we go over there as a group. When we're making mistakes, it could be a choice. You didn't practice, and that's when we start talking about, hey, have you put in your 20 to 30 minutes of practice? And I can see on their weekly practice logs if they turn it in or not. And when I see a kid not turning their practice log in consistently, do I let them perform at the state conference for Music for All? No, because they're not practicing. I don't ever want to put a kid in a situation where they're not prepared, and that is wrong, and I can't do that. So I had that conversation with the student and the parents like, hey, I noticed the practice logs aren't being turned in and I noticed they're not at the level where they need to be. So we have after school lessons that they come get extra help. We have private tutors that come in during the week that really work with them. And if we're seeing there's not growth, you know, I start asking the student — I'm like, do you like playing your instrument? Do you want an instrument change? And a lot of times they'll say, I just didn't practice. And that right there, they realized like, if I really want to keep up with the advanced kids, I got to practice. So I'm not a person that's like, hey, you can't go because you're not the best player, but you do have to have some system — you've got to be consistent, because you don't want to put a child in a situation where they're not successful and then somebody says to them, hey, you're not doing well on this performance and starts nitpicking everything. Because one thing I do teach with the kids — they take it, when they first start playing, they might take it personal if they don't do well. So I said get your hands out. Your right hand is your personality — you know who you are and everything. And then your left hand is your skills. I said you can't put these together like peanut butter and jelly, because guess what? Your skills are going to get better, but nobody can tell you who you are. You know, you are still a fun loving kid, you're awesome. But a lot of times they'll think that because they didn't perform well in these skills, they're not a good person. That's not the case. So you got to really talk about that with them. You know, the psychology — like, you're still a great kid, you've got to practice, and here's some things that you got to practice on, because it's like band is a process. You know, tuning is a process, practicing is a process, but being you is you. You're going to be you, and yes, you're going to evolve and be a different person and like different things. But kids in general, they'll put those together like peanut butter and jelly and think they're horrible, and they're not. And so having those conversations — I know the music's important, but having those conversations like, hey, you are a great person, you just got to practice. That's it.
Yeah, I like that you separate those two because — and I don't think about this as much teaching, I should. I mean, they're college kids, but they're older children still, they're still — I think they do the same thing. Sometimes they do get hard on themselves where it's a personal like weight, and I love that you just separated it for them. This is still you. We can build on the skills, but you're still you. I think that's fantastic.
This is shifting just a little bit, but I'm curious — you've been — this is your 21st year, and so you've been doing this for a little while. And for, you know, sometimes we have listeners and we talk to teachers that are out there that can find themselves stuck between wanting excellence but also sort of fearing the burnout, either for themselves or their students, where it's a lot of work and you know, you have to really be invested. I'm just curious, is there perhaps a mindset shift that you could offer them to help them continue to pursue excellence as opposed to feeling like this could kill me, like a burnout, it's so much time?
I think we've all been through it. And you know, I know in my first job at Iroquois, that took a lot of work, being at a school that was low performing academically year after year, and then building this band program up from scratch, winning with them within the first four years the Grammy Signature Award, and thinking excellence, you know, will distinguish — and your concert band, building a drumline, march band. And you know, it was a lot for me because I was by myself. I didn't really have anybody to help me until the very end. I started to bring in private teachers because we, you know, we can start to get that rolling in there. But during COVID 2020, I was like, I don't know if band's for me anymore. This was before COVID happened. It's like January, I was just tired. I'm like, I don't know if I needed I can do this anymore And it was just tough. But some reason it was in May, I got a phone call and it's like no middle school is going to open up. You know, your mentor is retiring and would you be interested in? And I had a pause because like, I don't know if I want to teach Ben anymore. And OK, let me just interview, let me give myself a chance. And I did and I got the job and I took the job and I knew we're in the middle COVID, I had to teach online. So it was like a rebirth for me. Like I got to teach online. I got to make sure these kids are ready. I got to make sure that they're prepared because we don't know how long we're going to be online. It was just a rebirth for me. So for individuals that might feel that way, it's OK to take a breather and figure out if this is for you and just don't give up because I know my family's like, you've done this too long playing your instrument. And a lot of times the factors that we're having of feeling like I just didn't want to keep, you know, teaching. I had to get some boundaries I had to make sure that I made food for myself for lunch and not power through my lunches because I had to make time to use the bathroom. I'm serious. Go use the bathroom. Make time to it's OK to leave the building. My former job, I was there till 11:00 at night, five days a week or even longer because it was just me. And I was just trying to find these tools to help kids be successful. And that time I was afraid to ask for help because I've asked for help before and got belittled. And so when that happens to you, be like, I'll figure out myself. So at that time I was like, I have to make take a chance and ask for any assistance with music. And I've done that and it's been helpful. But you just have to be careful who you ask because you got to know you got to know the vibe. If you know this person puts down other people, don't ask them for help because they're probably going to put you down too. But this person is encouraging, wants to help you go with that person and tell you there's always there's I always feel that everybody can give a little bit to somebody to be even better. So I do feel, but boundaries were the things that I start to do so before because at that time, the last six months before I left my last position, I started practicing those things a little bit. And I'm like, OK, let's spend on time. Let's, you know, use the bathroom, let's cook, you know, cook dinner, get home because you got a dog. Because I'm like a lot. When I got my dog, I found her on the road. That's how she got her name, Rhody. Rhody. Assistance And so my life really changed in those last six months before I changed into my job that I'm currently in. So. But yeah, I have to say a lot of times I don't like to use the word burnout, but a lot of times when you don't have feel like you're, you know, you're tired is you got to have some boundaries. So like right now, for the past six years, emails after when school ends at 3:20, I'm not answering more emails because I'm, I'm conducting the jazz. We are doing some, you know, after school lesson with kids, but I don't answer any emails. That are from parents or kids if it's like really important like hey I really need some did not do that. But on the weekends Saturday Sunday, no I'll send out the weekly reminder. But I guess if I see somebody's e-mail, that's really important, yeah, this let's get to take care of. But if it's an e-mail that can be wait till Monday, I might write the e-mail early and have it pre sent on Monday morning at 8:00. So they know that I've got their e-mail and my family's. I tell them I said anything after 320, I respond to it next school day for when we get back in the building. If it's a holiday and I asked him give me 24 hours and if I haven't got it, which that could happen, I said just send me a reminder and I'll get to it. Yeah, so. That's been a really big helper for me.
Yeah, go use the bathroom. Boundaries, yeah, I think that's. It's hard though, I get it. We're all going like, how do we do this?
We have a saying in our office in a Rivelli hall. I'm like, you know what? It's just band. I mean, we take it very seriously, you know, as we all do, right? But at the end of the day, it's just band. You know, we are changing lives. We're doing the things we can do, but just breathe.
Although I'm, I need to talk to you more about setting boundaries. I'm really bad at this. I mean, I'm still learning to just doing those living things and, and some of the boundaries like before, for example, you know, I don't tell people like I would never like take, you know, get my hair done on every week.
And then I met a beautician. She's like, you should do that. You should do that for you. Yeah. Take time for yourself. Take you got to take care of you and do that and those little changes they make my they make my day, my week, my month, my year to take care of yourself. And it's OK not to feel badly about that.
No. And in fact, no, you shouldn't. I think. I think sometimes we miss the mark. And I think, you know, when you're a young teacher, especially because you're, you're working so hard to, to try to be the best you can. You're trying to be successful. You know, you're all yeah. You come out of school with all these ideas and things you want to do and your immense job is kind of challenging and the amount of time it's taking And then you're, you're still learning on the job because you never know enough when you finish college. But it's the, you're a better teacher if you take time for yourself. You will be a better teacher if you spend some time investing in yourself versus trying to give everything to the students. And I know sometimes we're like, no, we do give to the students. We give, give, give. And that's great. But there has to be a moment of like, there's a boundary here where I have to be able to recuperate, revitalize, go get my hair done, whatever it is. Like, you need to take that time. You know, like, I wish that I had gotten like a massage like every other week when I was teaching. Like, like think about marching, man. I feel like every other week I'm just going to go take an hour and just get a massage. Hardly anyone does this. Like, they just they power through until the end and they're like, well, when I get through, then I'll take some time for myself. No, no, no, no, no. Set some boundaries. You'll be happier and your students will recognize when you're happier. I think they know when you come in on your A game.
I just think it's so I'm glad you said that. Setting boundaries. Your eyes are puffy. You're just like. All tired. Look, I was like, oh I need some sleep. Or like we forget to go to the doctor and like this year in mid-september, you know, you wouldn't take a day off. I'm like I need a day off to check. Now I know it's it's crazy. And so just schedule those things and not to the very end because if you feel something wrong, take care of it now. Those kids will be fine. They'll have a sub for a day. Or two. But take care of yourself.
It is crazy how we power through. I didn't go to the doctor. I remember when I was teaching in high school, I would never go to the doctor ever. And I was driving to school one day and like I was feeling like somethings wrong with my body. I actually drove to the hospital like I've never done this. Drove to the hospital like I need you to look at me. Somethings wrong with me like I just some I don't know and they couldn't even tell me what was wrong. They did all the they did all kinds of X-rays. I'm like, well, we can tell that you don't feel well, but we don't know what's wrong with you. It was crazy. The next day it was gone and I was fine. It's the only time from then until I was teaching at Kansas and every like every fall I'd get allergy stuff happening and I would get almost to the point of pneumonia. And God bless my secretary, Cindy Coster. Finally. She's the person like David, you will not spend another minute in this office. You're going to the doctor right now, like, yes, ma'am. I mean, she really was sort of like my mom and my work mom and she was the one that forced me and I probably still wouldn't. But no, I've got I've got some work to do. I'm going to and we have our March of and rehearsal in an hour. And like, Nope, you're it's fine. Your grad students can start that you go to the doctor. And that was the first time that like other than driving to the hospital that I just went to the doctor like for something that was ended up being preventative. They told me like if you had just done this two weeks ago, you wouldn't be sick right now, period. Like, you know, this is dumb. I should just take care of myself better. But it was me trying to take care of my kids, right? And. You know. You. Got to take care of yourself first. Before you take care of others. Take care of yourself first.
Yeah, that was great. So, so boundaries. And the other thing you said, which I think is really important, is asking for help, but finding a trusted mentor. Find someone that you can bounce information off of there You could. It could be more than one person, two or three people in your life that you know, These are people that I can reach out to when I'm struggling because you know, they're always going to be there for you. So that's wonderful advice too.
I know who I can call, for example, Lois Wiggins. Lois Wiggins I love Lois A. Couple seasons. Ago I remember seeing Lois teach when I was in Western Kentucky because I'm from Western Kentucky. Yeah. And as a kid, you know, you're 11 years old and you're the only black woman you ever see as a teacher. I've never had a black woman as a teacher even till the stay I saw Lois on like me. Yeah, he knows everything. We didn't play with her because she didn't. She didn't just like, hey, you got to do it the way Lois does it. And we. Just I love Lois.
Yes. We yeah, she is. So she does have so much. I hope she will write like a Lois ISM book, like the thing she says in rehearsals. Just they would make me chuckle because they were so down to earth but had such a specific like she said one even on the podcast. We interviewed her a season or two ago and she was talking about like not moving, but she's like, I think she called like, Nope, no personal earthquakes or personal explosions. No personal earthquakes. Like that's such a fun way to say sit still, you know, be still in your chair, but in a more positive way. But yeah, when I first got to Kentucky, when I was we were doing the honor bands, the EKU honor bands. Like she was the for the middle school bands. Like, who's the best person? Like that was my question. Who's the best person? And everyone's like Lois Wiggins. That's who the first, that's who I called. Like, I want Lois Wiggins conducting that ensemble, then she's the best person to do it. So.
Yeah. And she's, she is there. You're right. She's the kind of mentor you can reach out to and she's going to support you musically, personally, whatever you need. She's going to lift you up and I love that about her and I love that you've mentioned saying that's a good resource to have in your life. So for everyone listening, find that person. Have your person. And also check out the episode Where, Where we with. Lois, it's great. Fascinating. So all right then, then now's the time in the podcast where we ask all of our guests 3, three questions and I'm going to take the first one. Do you have a soapbox topic?
OK, does it have to be music wise?
Whatever you want. Anything.
Oh gosh, yes I do. OK. OK, it's potlucks. I'm serious. I'm serious. If you're going to, I mean, if because like I have a pet and you know, and everything has to be cleaned. Like if you're going to do a potluck any, anywhere, make sure your house is clean, make sure your utensils are clean, make sure your hands are clean, what you're using, make sure the pets not around the food. I'm serious. And you think about that because when you have the potlucks, everything I ask people like who made this, who made this? OK, I know not to touch that, but just think about this. Cleanliness is really important in potlucks.
I think some lady that's on Instagram, she, she rates all people's potlucks and no.
Kidding the.
Level of like hey you get 4 statues in your name or no you're cut out what you brought.
Also, season your food. I don't care evening your food. Not everybody should make macaroni and cheese.
Well, that's true. That is very true. That's not my Forte. Don't make macaroni and cheese.
That is hilarious. Potlucks. Yeah, potlucks. I'm sorry. You, you like, cracked me up. And then I started coughing. I had to. I had to mute myself.
Hey. But I think with potlucks, anybody that's doing a potluck, just make sure cleanliness is next to everything and then yeah, you're ready for that.
All right, listen. Listen, if you're doing a, a band potluck with your staff, know what to do here. Question number 2 is, is there a book or could be one book, multiple books, anything that's inspired you in your journey that you could share with our listeners?
Oh, OK, And I hope I don't get the, the title wrong because look, I'm looking right now. So I just want to make sure I got the right person. I think for me right now, the it's yeah, the let them theory. I finished that book. Mel Robbins. I just want to make sure I had her name right. The let them theory A lot of times in our career, you know, we want to impress people. We want to make sure we make connections, but the let them theory. So it just helps you like, hey, let them do that. But you have the choice to, you know, make the right decision, Like, hey, somebody ignored you today. Let them do that. But don't let that mess up your whole day. And so the book has helped me a lot because, yeah, we want to be warm and inviting some people and everything. But just let me know that, hey, maybe that person, that's their thing. And you shouldn't take it personal about what somebody does to you because like the first part of my career where I taught, it was tough working with the adults. I'm not gonna lie. It was tough because when you took over a program, I only had five kids. They didn't sound great. People would tear me apart. It's like, you suck. I mean, I was told that daily those first years. And it really got to me because like, I played in amazing ensembles and then coming in where you're with the general public, that's like, hey, your kids suck. You suck. And they did not suck. They just needed more work and help. And it took a toll on me. And I just thought I was a horrible person. If I really talk about like, hey, you can't connect your skill set, you know, I'm a different band director than I was, you know, 20 years ago and you can't put it together. But people just really, really mean and you kind of you're hard on yourself. I know, Vander, it's gotta be hard on yourself. But reading this book just let you know that if somebody has to go out their way really an adult to be mean to you, you can't take that personal. That's like that's some home training issues that from the beginning. So you can't take that. I believe I went out of my way. It was mean to someone else. But if I'm not doing that, sometimes it's it ain't know something. It's just you have to let them be them. But you got to let you know that you've you've done your best to work person and this is not a reflection of you Yeah. So I. Think theory. That's good.
All right. Great suggestion. So our final question, Linda, and probably the most important. So what is your favorite time signature?
54.
OK, why is that? She was quick on that 54.
54 OK, you. Didn't have to think about it, you just know 54.
54 it's. Just is there.
Why is it 54?
I think it's just to set you the focus that you really got to think about the two and the three or three and the two, and it's just you have to be ready. It's more like it's energetic and if you're not paying, you're gonna fall apart.
That is true. That is true. That is, that's just A5 four.
Well, Linda, unfortunately the answer is common time, which is?
Common time.
NO54IS great.
Linda, thanks so much for being with us today. It's been a really fantastic time just to dive into kind of how you think and so forth. And congratulations on the upcoming performances and the success you're having with your kids. We're just we're thankful that we're thankful for what you do and thankful that you're on the podcast with us.
Oh. Thank you so much. This has been a great honor. This year has been amazing and I just want to say it's been a blessing. So thank you so much.
Absolutely. And that's a wrap on today's episode. Thanks for spending part of your day with us on the Common Time podcast. If today's conversation gave you something to think about or something to try with your students, we'd love for you to share this episode with a colleague. And you can also follow us on social media for episode clips, behind the scenes content, and updates to our upcoming guests. And if you haven't already, please be sure to subscribe so that you never miss an episode. Until next time, keep making music and keep making a difference.